[K1W1]

Originally Posted by NYCAP123

We don't allow pistol practice in Times Square.

Hi,

NYCAP- You might be onto a new novelty tourist thing with that one and you could stop being a boat Cap and pop a few Caps instead.

[NYCAP123]

Originally Posted by K1W1

Hi,

NYCAP- You might be onto a new novelty tourist thing with that one and you could stop being a boat Cap and pop a few Caps instead.

As tourist season wraps up here on the island you tempt me. I gauge my season as a success if I can make it to Labor Day and still resist the urge to run over the next fool who thinks that under my bow is a good place to be.

[Seafarer]

Forgive me for veering off-course...

Originally Posted by NYCAP123

In the context used on YF most assume the term "captain" refers to a licensed master performing his job instead of just some guy with more money than sense.
Seafarer, you really need to re-think your argument here. 1) we've had several deaths here from high speed, night bridge strikes, as well as a little girl killed returning from fishing with her dad, and a little girl who watched her father plowed through by a guy who didn't even stop. None of these objects and people were offshore to be hit. 2) this skipper intentionally avoided using the proper bridge because it would put him into a slow speed zone where he'd have to drive prudently or risk being stopped. 3) Rescue workers would much rather go a mile offshore on a calm night (nobody races in 10' seas) if it meant they'd have to deal with carnage and innocent victims less often. Besides, they make that decision as did the jerk. Not so the ones who become the victims. In Florida they protect sea cows by restricting speeds within 500' of land. I'd say that some people's lives are at least as valuable as a sea cow. Look again at the aerial view of that area and picture it littered with a hundred or so small boats at anchor (which it often is). We restrict high speed auto driving to racetracks. We don't allow pistol practice in Times Square.

We restrict high speed driving? I guess, to a degree. When's the last time you drove the LIE though? You can't get pulled over doing less than 80 these days. The NYSP have an unofficial 80 limit in any 65 zone depending on traffic... Speaking of which, there are tens to hundreds of thousands of cars daily on our area highways. Traffic tends to slow itself down when things get that crowded. what speed do you think people would do with just "a hundred or so" cars on the road?

How many traffic accidents are there from speeding despite laws in place?

Who's going to pay for the extra cops to police the tourists and weekenders?

We don't allow pistol practice in Times Square is an even more ridiculous analogy. Are you suggesting that we apply Sullivan Act type permit processes to watercraft purchase and possession? Think that one through a little better.

I don't think you really have a grasp on what volunteer rescue workers like and don't like. Maybe the USCG, with their cutters and rollovers and zodiacs love going a mile or ten offshore, but the rest of us, the guys in your local volunteer fire department and such, we're working stiffs, businesspeople, retirees, college kids, husbands, wives, fathers, mothers... people who want to get back to our own families at the end of the call. It amazes me that you would express such callous and wanton disregard for our safety and well-being, while weeping buckets over the disruption to your anchorage. Are our lives less valuable because we volunteer to put ourselves in harm's way when the alarm sounds?

The rules of the road presently apply to the issue you're calling for more laws to apply to. As a licensed captain, I'm certain you're intimiately familiar with US Code TITLE 46, Subtitle II, Part A, CHAPTER 23, Sec. 2302., Penalties for negligent operations and interfering with safe operation.

You must also, as a licensed captain and Long Island resident, be aware of NY State law which states (among other things)

NYS Consolidated Laws, NAV, Article 4, Part 1, § 45. Reckless operation of a vessel; speed.
1. (a) Every master or operator of a vessel shall at all times navigate the same in a careful and prudent manner in such a way as not to unreasonably interfere with the free and proper use of the navigable waters of the state and all tidewaters bordering on or lying within the boundaries of Nassau and Suffolk counties or unreasonably endanger any vessel or person. Reckless operation is prohibited. Any person operating a vessel in violation of this subdivision shall be guilty of a misdemeanor punishable as set forth in section seventy-three-b of this article.
(b) No person shall operate a vessel at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent under the conditions and having regard to the actual and potential hazards then existing.
1-a. No vessel other than the tending vessel shall be operated within one hundred feet of a red flag with a diagonal white bar which, when displayed on the water or from a boat, indicates underwater diving, or a designated course for racing shells but no such flag shall be placed so as to deny access or use of any boathouse, wharf, harbor, bay, channel or navigable waterway.
2. Except as provided in section forty-five-cc of this part, no vessel shall be operated within one hundred feet of the shore, a dock, pier, raft, float or an anchored or moored vessel at a speed exceeding five miles per hour, unless such vessel is being operated near such shore, dock, float, pier, raft, or anchored vessel for the purpose of enabling a person engaged in water skiing to take off or land.
3. The provisions of this section shall not apply to a vessel while actually competing in a regatta or boat race authorized under section thirty-four of this chapter.
4. The provisions of subdivision two above shall not apply to commercial vessels having a valid marine document issued by the United
States or a foreign government.
5. The violation of any of the provisions of this section other than paragraph (a) of subdivision one of this section shall constitute a violation punishable as set forth in section seventy-three-c of this article.
7. (a) The court may suspend a person's privilege to operate a vessel for a period of at least three but less than twelve months upon conviction for reckless operation of a vessel pursuant to any applicable provision of this article. In determining the length of such suspension, the court may take into consideration the seriousness of the offense and may impose a period of suspension whereby such suspension may be in effect during a portion of the current or subsequent boating season.
(b) The court shall suspend a person's privilege to operate and may suspend a vessel registration:
(1) for a period of at least six but less than twelve months where a person is convicted of reckless operation of a vessel pursuant to any applicable provision of this article after having been convicted of any such offense within the preceding eighteen months. In determining the length of such suspension or suspensions, the court may take into consideration the seriousness of the offense and may impose a period of suspension whereby such suspension may be in effect during a portion of the current or subsequent boating season;

So in light of the foregoing, I beg of you, if the existing unenforced directly applicable laws don't protect you from meeting a jerk like this as you round a bend, what do more unenforced laws do to protect you?

We have an addiction to new laws in this country, thinking that "there oughtta be a law!" is going to protect us when chances are there already is a law. It partly takes enforcement and partly takes penalty, not additional laws. Again, who's paying for the enforcement? If this guy ran high speed in a channel that's not regularly used and at all times within 100' of land, at a late hour, what are the odds of having a water cop out there to enforce the speed limit you desire? If the enforcement isn't there for the laws already in place, another law will do nothing but criminalize heretofore law-abiding and responsible individuals. If the penalty for reckless or negligent operation is $250, is that a deterrent to someone who put double that in his tank to go play for an afternoon?

What's a speeding ticket going to do as a deterrent?

It may feel good and sound good to call for another law, but let's focus on what's going to actually have an effect instead of making a good sound byte.

If you'd like to continue this discussion, let's take it to PMs.

[NYCAP123]

Originally Posted by Seafarer

Forgive me for veering off-course...



We restrict high speed driving? I guess, to a degree. When's the last time you drove the LIE though? You can't get pulled over doing less than 80 these days. The NYSP have an unofficial 80 limit in any 65 zone depending on traffic... Speaking of which, there are tens to hundreds of thousands of cars daily on our area highways. Traffic tends to slow itself down when things get that crowded. what speed do you think people would do with just "a hundred or so" cars on the road?

How many traffic accidents are there from speeding despite laws in place?

Who's going to pay for the extra cops to police the tourists and weekenders?

We don't allow pistol practice in Times Square is an even more ridiculous analogy. Are you suggesting that we apply Sullivan Act type permit processes to watercraft purchase and possession? Think that one through a little better.

I don't think you really have a grasp on what volunteer rescue workers like and don't like. Maybe the USCG, with their cutters and rollovers and zodiacs love going a mile or ten offshore, but the rest of us, the guys in your local volunteer fire department and such, we're working stiffs, businesspeople, retirees, college kids, husbands, wives, fathers, mothers... people who want to get back to our own families at the end of the call. It amazes me that you would express such callous and wanton disregard for our safety and well-being, while weeping buckets over the disruption to your anchorage. Are our lives less valuable because we volunteer to put ourselves in harm's way when the alarm sounds?

The rules of the road presently apply to the issue you're calling for more laws to apply to. As a licensed captain, I'm certain you're intimiately familiar with US Code TITLE 46, Subtitle II, Part A, CHAPTER 23, Sec. 2302., Penalties for negligent operations and interfering with safe operation.

You must also, as a licensed captain and Long Island resident, be aware of NY State law which states (among other things)

So in light of the foregoing, I beg of you, if the existing unenforced directly applicable laws don't protect you from meeting a jerk like this as you round a bend, what do more unenforced laws do to protect you?

We have an addiction to new laws in this country, thinking that "there oughtta be a law!" is going to protect us when chances are there already is a law. It partly takes enforcement and partly takes penalty, not additional laws. Again, who's paying for the enforcement? If this guy ran high speed in a channel that's not regularly used and at all times within 100' of land, at a late hour, what are the odds of having a water cop out there to enforce the speed limit you desire? If the enforcement isn't there for the laws already in place, another law will do nothing but criminalize heretofore law-abiding and responsible individuals. If the penalty for reckless or negligent operation is $250, is that a deterrent to someone who put double that in his tank to go play for an afternoon?

What's a speeding ticket going to do as a deterrent?

It may feel good and sound good to call for another law, but let's focus on what's going to actually have an effect instead of making a good sound byte.

If you'd like to continue this discussion, let's take it to PMs.

Going PM.