Was this Captain Licensed?

Capt J · 10-06-2009, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marmot

He was evidently captain of his little boat. Whether he held a certificate or not is beside the point except for the dilletantes who like to argue about what a captain is. Which is kind of funny since until recently most Sons of Magellan running yachts didn't have a license yet were happy to sport an acre of braid and call themselves Cappy.

Who knows what happened, maybe the throttles stuck and he panicked, maybe someone else throtttled up when he was doing something else? I am sure we will learn the results of his autopsy and toxicology reports and maybe even get testimony from the survivor. Until then it's all speculation, and mean pointless speculation at that.

Someone who is licensed is called a Captain

Someone who is un-licensed and running a boat, is called an Operator.

Kevin · 10-06-2009, 07:01 PM

No offense Capt J, but do you honestly trust the media to get a detail like that correct? In this day and age, I hardly would.

NYCAP123 · 10-06-2009, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin

No offense Capt J, but do you honestly trust the media to get a detail like that correct? In this day and age, I hardly would.

I just read 2 different stories about the crash. One said captain and the other said operator. I read the names listed and he's no working captain that I've heard of and I get around the Island a lot. They also said the channel is 76' wide and 2/3's of it are blocked by the barges working on the Parkway bridge. I came by there last week and that sounds accurate. Even and sometimes especially a captain can be a fool, but I don't think that's the case here. I think this is just a normal case of way too much HP in the hands of the wrong person. 3 more for the summer record books. I would vote for a ban on speeds over 40 kts. within 1/2 mile of shore or other boats. That would have eliminated 5 deaths this summer on Long Island that I know of. Florida has a speed limit of I believe 30 mph if I'm not mistaken. All the idle speed zones drive me nuts, but I have no problem with the open speed cap even though I really enjoy speed.

CaptTom · 10-06-2009, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYCAP123

I just read 2 different stories about the crash. One said captain and the other said operator. I read the names listed and he's no working captain that I've heard of and I get around the Island a lot. They also said the channel is 76' wide and 2/3's of it are blocked by the barges working on the Parkway bridge. I came by there last week and that sounds accurate. Even and sometimes especially a captain can be a fool, but I don't think that's the case here. I think this is just a normal case of way too much HP in the hands of the wrong person. 3 more for the summer record books. I would vote for a ban on speeds over 40 kts. within 1/2 mile of shore or other boats. That would have eliminated 5 deaths this summer on Long Island that I know of. Florida has a speed limit of I believe 30 mph if I'm not mistaken. All the idle speed zones drive me nuts, but I have no problem with the open speed cap even though I really enjoy speed.

Ed,
There's something wrong here. The guys a local, been boating for years. He decides on the last ride of the season to go WOT or close to that through the Goose Creek Bridge, that can be cozy on a good day, but this time the construction barges are all around? It's night, but moonlit, flooding tide, and he screams through the bridge and ends up on the marsh? I think we need to seriously consider a problem was occuring on the vessel, either he slumped into the controls (as mentioned previously) and they couldn't lift him or turn or a major malfunction that caused the speed. Just seems way out of character for the time and location.
Not that I am defending go-fast boats and their "operators" as I've seen my share of gold-chain wearing, testosterone filled knuckleheads, especially around LI. But this smells fishy, not adding up for me.
So sorry that people were hurt and killed due to this situation.

NYCAP123 · 10-06-2009, 10:02 PM

Not that anything isn't possible, but I don't know that he went through that bridge at speed or lost it on one of the turns along the 76' wide canal, possibly as he passed the crain. When I passed the other day the crain barge was at the construction dock which is around the corner from the bridge. Other work barges are at the bridge. As for running 70 or even 100 mph through those channels it's nothing unusual. Doing it on a moonlit night is just fun and thrilling ... oh yeah, and deadly. I'd also be interested in hearing the tox report after an indian summer Sunday. That said, lawyers are already hinting at mechanicals. Hustler will be hurt by this no matter what. Just what Long Island needs right now is to lose more marine jobs this summer.

NYCAP123 · 10-06-2009, 11:11 PM

Confirmed. The operator was NOT a captain. He was a long time local boater who ran an automotive transmission shop. Obviously mechanically adept as well. At those speeds it takes only a moments distraction, a small judgement error or a mechanical glitch.

CaptTom · 10-06-2009, 11:16 PM

My intention is not to try this case in the media, but here's an excerpt from Newsday (10/06/09):
"Police said the boat traveled under the Goose Creek Bridge on the Wantagh Parkway "at a high rate of speed" before heading northeast and crashing more than a mile from the span. The channel under the bridge normally has a 5 mph speed limit but it is now closed because of a construction project. There is no speed limit in the channel by Goose Island."

The channel is 5 mph near and under the bridge. But the bridge is closed as it is under construction, making it a non-navigatable channel. The operator should have taken the bridge a little further south, but that would have meant that he would have to ride the slow zone channel back north, perhaps something he didn't want to do.
Not sure if this will be a bad hit to Hustler as the owner had this boat for many years. It will be a hit to his estate once the lawyers come.

NYCAP123 · 10-06-2009, 11:56 PM

That jives with what I hear. This is a link to the Google satalite map of the area.http://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&...,0.076818&z=14

I'd guess from what I heard that his route was east down Sloop channel from Jones inlet (a safe place to go fast. making a left to avoid the good bridge but which puts you in a 5mph zone, passing the construction dock you see (not a safe place to go fast) making a hard right through the bridge followed by a hard left. That be a fun ride at speed. Like something you'd have seen on Miami Vice/

Capt J · 10-07-2009, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYCAP123

That jives with what I hear. This is a link to the Google satalite map of the area.http://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&...,0.076818&z=14

I'd guess from what I heard that his route was east down Sloop channel from Jones inlet (a safe place to go fast. making a left to avoid the good bridge but which puts you in a 5mph zone, passing the construction dock you see (not a safe place to go fast) making a hard right through the bridge followed by a hard left. That be a fun ride at speed. Like something you'd have seen on Miami Vice/

Hey, they ran a few of the boats across land in miami vice....I'll never forget, I was out with this friend of mine and he had a 20' Action with a 2.4 bridgeport merc on it, that ran mid 90's. We were running across biscayne bay at speed, and I see a sandbar coming at us REAL fast.......My friend trims the motor and hydraulic jackplate up, we skid across the sandbar and back in the water.....he lowers the jackplate and motor and keeps on going like nothing happened........

Henning · 10-07-2009, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capt J

Someone who is licensed is called a Captain

Someone who is un-licensed and running a boat, is called an Operator.

Actually, Operator of Uninspected Passenger Vessel and Operator of Uninspected Towing Vessels are licenses issued by the USCG.

My license reads Master, not Captain. Captain isn't really an officially sanctioned term, nor is Skipper....

NYCAP123 · 10-07-2009, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henning

Actually, Operator of Uninspected Passenger Vessel and Operator of Uninspected Towing Vessels are licenses issued by the USCG.

My license reads Master, not Captain. Captain isn't really an officially sanctioned term, nor is Skipper....

We carried that discussion a long way on another thread. You'll note that Capt. J said "is called" and not "is a". Big difference. If anybody called me "Master" I'd be struck by the urge to set them free. The only exceptions to that would be Master Chief and Master of Arms. This here was just to differentiate between someone licensed and working in the trade as opposed to a Sunday sailor.

Henning · 10-07-2009, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYCAP123

We carried that discussion a long way on another thread. You'll note that Capt. J said "is called" and not "is a". Big difference. If anybody called me "Master" I'd be struck by the urge to set them free. The only exceptions to that would be Master Chief and Master of Arms. This here was just to differentiate between someone licensed and working in the trade as opposed to a Sunday sailor.

My point was on the assertion that an unlicenced person is an operator whereas Operator is actually listed on a license and Captain is not. Captain is a colloquial term that doesn't have any any official prerequisites.

Marmot · 10-07-2009, 09:08 AM

See post #14

"Whether he held a certificate or not is beside the point except for the dilletantes who like to argue about what a captain is."

Henning · 10-07-2009, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marmot

See post #14

"Whether he held a certificate or not is beside the point except for the dilletantes who like to argue about what a captain is."

It's actually very simple, the captain is the person who holds liability for the operation of the craft regardless of certification. IOW, it's the person with top billing on the lawsuit when things go wrong, as you say, certificate regardless.

NYCAP123 · 10-07-2009, 09:37 AM

I think it's more deduction than speculation, especially as more information comes forward. So far I don't see any mean spiritedness. If a licensed 'captain' was at the helm this would be huge negligence instead of normal stupidity. I think this is an important area for discussion because of the number of lives lost and obviously from the incident some still need to learn the lessons. Because of the amount of cops out people rarely do 100 mph on the LIE any more. There is no such deterant on the waterways around here. Speed regulation is needed and that will only happen if there is discussion.