From $2.00 gas to $5.00 gas in 4 years

Codger · 06-06-2008, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYCAP123

You'd think they would have learned after getting nailed in the 70's to stay ahead of the curve. My sympathies to the UAW members.

You can get real fat, happy and oblivious when you own 50% of the market.
Now that they're under 20% they're actually waking up.
The smarter UAW guys put in for jobs at the Toyota plant....

Seafarer · 06-06-2008, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYCAP123

You'd think they would have learned after getting nailed in the 70's to stay ahead of the curve. My sympathies to the UAW members.

"Oshawa Truck Assembly in Canada, which builds the Chevy Silverado and GMC Sierra, will likely cease production in 2009, while Moraine, Ohio, which builds the Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy and Saab 9-7x, will end production at the end of the 2010 model run, or sooner, if demand dictates. Janesville, Wisconsin, will cease production of medium-duty trucks by the end of 2009, and of the Tahoe, Suburban and Yukon in 2010, or sooner, if market demand dictates. Chevrolet Kodiak medium-duty truck production will also end in Toluca, Mexico, by the end of this year."

Medium Duty is the Chevrolet Kodiak and its GMC equivalent - GM has been trying to shed the medium duty business to Isuzu for a few years. The TrailBlazer/Envoy/9-7x platform will be 10 years old in 2010, and due to be ended by then (replaced by the "CUV" lineup - Buick Enclave, GMC Acadia, Chevy Traverse, Saturn Outlook), so the Moraine closing is not unexpected. Oshawa has 4 GM plants, the smallest of which was excess light duty truck capacity - GM has three other light duty truck plants building the pickups throughout North America. Similarly, the Janesville Suburban/Tahoe/Yukon capacity in Janesville is excess, with three other plants building those vehicles elsewhere. The primary manufacturing for the big SUVs is now in Arlington, TX, the exclusive build site for the Hybrid versions of those trucks.

The announcement is basically a tightening of a previously vague longer-term timeframe for each of these.

But back to gas prices... hometown station's regular is pushing $4.50; local marina on 05/30/2008 is Diesel $5.09 Gal. 89 Octane Gasoline $4.599 Gal.

They haven't updated the site for this weekend yet.

MBevins · 06-06-2008, 06:34 PM

I've read this entire thread and nobody has asked the question. " When did diesel suddenly start costing more than gasoline?

Seafarer · 06-06-2008, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Codger

You can get real fat, happy and oblivious when you own 50% of the market.
Now that they're under 20% they're actually waking up.
The smarter UAW guys put in for jobs at the Toyota plant....

Toyota is non-UAW (paying significantly less - though that's made up for a bit in the difference in not taking out union dues and giving excellent benefits for active workers) and there's currently a bit of consternation as Toyota won't unionize, can't be forced to unionize, and won't carry any seniority or benefits over from union jobs. The UAW, similarly, doesn't want to honor seniority, health, or pension plans for people who are no longer paying into the system prior to their retirement age.

Most UAW workers with 10-15 years at GM or Ford or Chrysler would have to put in 25+ years at Toyota to be eligible for the much smaller retirement package that they offer as well.

I'm not sure how many people are putting in for jobs with Toyota, nor how "smart" it is for them to do so.

Seafarer · 06-06-2008, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MBevins

I've read this entire thread and nobody has asked the question. " When did deisel suddenly start costing more than gasoline?

That happened when the oil industry realized it cost less to make diesel, but the demand is far less elastic than that for gasoline as the price rises. Goods and commodities need to move, trucks and trains use diesel to move them. Whether or not people switch to smaller cars or stay closer to home, there's still a need for diesel.

The oil co's have diesel consumers over a barrel, no pun intended.

Codger · 06-06-2008, 07:12 PM

Sorry, should have been more specific. Canadian side of it. Health benefits are not part of the equation. Perhaps "market savvy" would have been better than "smart". Not sure about Ontario regs but in many jurisdictions you are entitled as long as you pay your dues even if you leave and go to work elsewhere.

Just another take on diesel. You can't just dump a barrel of oil in one end of a refinery and get any particular end product out the other that you want. There is a limited mix ratio in most refineries. Just for the sake of discussion, if designed for 15% diesel output then there's only so far that you can go from that percentage. You don't just flip a switch and get 40% diesel out instead. Each end product has it's own market so the pricing varies. Getting the sulphur down to the required levels isn't a cheap trick either and the type and origin of that original barrel of oil plays a big part in it all as well.

Codger · 06-10-2008, 01:23 AM

It seems that 1.35/litre ($5.10 US Gallon) is a point where some things begin to change.
Some auto dealers are now refusing pickup trucks and SUVs as trade ins.

K1W1 · 06-10-2008, 02:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Codger

Some auto dealers are now refusing pickup trucks and SUVs as trade ins.

Hi,

Might be a good time to get a bargain then.

NYCAP123 · 06-10-2008, 06:42 AM

Absolutely a great time for a deal. All you have to do is sell your house (assuming it's not in foreclosure) to pay for the fuel.

Kevin · 06-10-2008, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin

Another jump this morning of about $0.14 per liter.

We're up to $1.439/L (US$5.49/gal) for regular 87 octane, and as high as $1.599/L (US$6.10/gal) for diesel.

That was two weeks ago. The Monday evening (26th) it was $1.299/L, and the Tuesday morning it was $1.439.

Yesterday evening it jumped another $0.08/L to $1.519.

$0.22/L (roughly $0.83/gal.) in 14 days...

K1W1 · 06-10-2008, 08:32 AM

Hi,

Jokes aside I would be interested in a late model Diesel Suburban, if such a beast exists and if anyone is thinking of downsizing and can't sell their existing monster.

Edit: My mistake, I did a Google after posting and found they aren't making any at the moment and haven't since 2000 :-(. New one expected in 2010 but with current developments who knows if it will make it to the showroom.

Kevin · 06-10-2008, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K1W1

with current developments who knows if it will make it to the showroom.

No kidding... and pretty soon I'll wonder if GM can even afford to put gas in it to transport it.

K1W1 · 06-10-2008, 08:57 AM

Hi,

Yes too bad.

I am embarking on a 1460km road trip tomorrow which will take me through 5 countries. If it all goes according to plan I will only bunker once at about 850km, if the traffic is heavy or the recent European Truck blockades of border crossing as a protest at fuel costs get me the times and consumption will be a whole new number.

I will post back with my costs for what is a fairly normal distance a family would drive here for their holidays from Mid. Europe down to the Mediterranean Coast and back and see how it compares to what it would cost in the US even with the high fuel prices.

Codger · 06-10-2008, 09:14 AM

The show is on and should be interesting this year. Already talked with a few friends that I haven't seen for a couple of years and the volatility of pricing is a subject that makes most just shake their heads.

http://www.petroleumshow.com/globalpetroleum/

CaptPKilbride · 06-10-2008, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K1W1

Hi,
Jokes aside I would be interested in a late model Diesel Suburban, if such a beast exists and if anyone is thinking of downsizing and can't sell their existing monster.

You should consider a Ford Excursion with the diesel motor. If you can find a used one with the 7.3 litre Powerstroke you will have a great truck.