[catmando]

I can't believe these idiots that are buying the gas guzzlers again. What are they gonna do when their pump gas goes back over $4/gal?? And it WILL go back.

[Codger]

Catmando

I just came back back from a very quick trip to Indonesia and the Gulf states.
A little history was quoted often and used as a reminder... The faster and more steeply the price drops the faster and equally steeply is the curve back up.

[NYCAP123]

On the up side, the Big 3 are already geared up to meet the demand. Sounds like the government made a sound investment (for the moment) since trucks and SUVs are high profit items. Now all we need is a few regulations put in place so the commodity traders or anyone else can't do what they did this year again. Not sure what the cure is for Toyota and the rest.

[NYCAP123]

Is anybody else outraged that, after what happened to fuel prices over this past year, Exon/Mobile has just announced that they cleared the highest profit ever realized by a U.S. corporation. At a time when the world is trying to keep their houses and jobs they took $42.5 Billion in profit along with getting government (taxpayer) subsidies? On top of that, the Wall Street firms that pleaded for a bailout then took huge bonus' for their execs.
Can anybody (that doesn't have their hand in the till) say that regulation isn't needed to stop this profiteering?

[Pascal]

socialism has been tried in europe and doens't work... we're about to try it here and the resutls will not be different.

As to Exon/Mobil, they are paying close to 50% of that back to the IRS... a good chunk of the remaining profits goes to shareholders and many are not oil barons but average americans saving for retirement.

[NYCAP123]

Originally Posted by Pascal

socialism has been tried in europe and doens't work... we're about to try it here and the resutls will not be different.

As to Exon/Mobil, they are paying close to 50% of that back to the IRS... a good chunk of the remaining profits goes to shareholders and many are not oil barons but average americans saving for retirement.

RU kidding. You actually defend these kinds of profits that caused thousands of people to lose there homes and jobs because they couldn't aford to buy gas for their cars; that is destroying the boating industry because people couldn't or wouldn't pay the price of fuel. You justify it by saying they pay taxes. They get government subsidies! You justify it by saying that at least Wall Street got a share. Here, let's put it in caps: GREED IS GOOD. Isn't that the mantra? I guess it's OK that the Citi Bank bought a private jet with the bailout money they got and that the Wall Street executives earned their bonuses by flim-flaming the government into bailing them out. BTW, there is a difference between regulating those who won't restrain themselves and socialism.

[K1W1]

Hi,

NYCAP- I can't say what has happened out there on Long Island but elsewhere in the world the pump price of fuel seems to have gone down in the last few months.

I was kinda surprised to read that they pay so much tax but there is a table about 1/2 way down here that gives thus impression http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExxonMobil#Financial_data

Whilst I am not defending CITIBANK you might find that they had been entered in a binding contract to buy that aircraft for a few years ( they used to have the same long lead time like new yachts) that they were unable to walk away from. If however all the execs are using it like the company go kart then heads do need to roll.

[NYCAP123]

Originally Posted by K1W1

Hi,

NYCAP- I can't say what has happened out there on Long Island but elsewhere in the world the pump price of fuel seems to have gone down in the last few months.

I was kinda surprised that if as Pascal says they actually do pay 50% or anywhere near that in taxes.

Whilst I am not defending CITIBANK you might find that they had been entered in a binding contract to buy that aircraft for a few years ( they used to have the same long lead time like new yachts) that they were unable to walk away from. If however all the execs are using it like the company go kart then heads do need to roll.

Of course the price of fuel has come down. It's their normal M.O. They raise the price until the entire world threatens to nationalize them and then they lower it to a point where you feel they've done you a favor since they're now only getting 1/3 more than the original price. Sure wish I could get a 33% raise in these times, especially on top of a fast $42.5 BILLION profit. No matter what taxes they pay, as my mother used to say, if you didn't make it you wouldn't be paying taxes on it. As for the jet, do you remember the uproar when the auto execs just used the jet they had. That jet should have been put up for sale when there was only a deposit to lose just like is happening on several yachts today. I think that this bailout money should be colateralized. That jet alone would cover a bit. Then there are the corporate real estate holdings. How about a nice interest rate or a share of their profits. Maybe they should just go to Exon/Mobile for a bailout. Oh, then there is Bernie Madoff's $50B. Of course you've heard that he's complaining that his Park Ave. house arrest is too confining. Here on Long Island we have Nick Cosmo, but it appears he only took $347M. (I'm big time ticked, but I'll step off the soap box now. Sorry just needed to vent.)

[K1W1]

Hi,

On these bigger builds of both Aircraft and Yachts the "deposit" is normally 10- 15% of the contract price and there are subsequent payments made as the project goes on these are known as milestones and will be set points in the construction such as the hull being finished, the interior going in, engines in, all leading up to launch and delivery.

Usually at delivery there is only 5 -10% of the contract price remaining to be paid- the already paid 90-95% is a heck of a "deposit" to walk away from if the contract is worth $50 or $100 million or more.

There are a number of large new builds where the clients would happily sell their interest on to someone else. There is only one I have heard of where the Owner walked away from his initial payment(Deposit) to the yard.

[Pascal]

it's hard, and not even worth trying, replying to rants where you shoot at 1/2 dozen targets from oil company to citi to madoff and more...

listening to you it seems that it's the oil company that raised gas prices just to raise profits... seems like you forgot one little detail: the price of oil.

and as to the current financial mess, seems that you missed the little detail about subprimes and how all the warning signs where ignored starting with those clowns in congress who are on tape and on record chanting "Fannie and freddie are fine". Of course the head clown doing the chanting (barney) was in bed (litterally) with F&F...

oh crap, here i am, typing a simplistic rant as well! :-)

[OutMyWindow]

This is kind of sad, or funny in a perverse way, but I believe it’s the same guy who’s the biggest stockholder in CITIBANK, although I'm not sure if its the same jet you guys are talking about, or just one more in the fleet.
____________________________
I do believe that the recent spike in oil prices was due to “speculators” as opposed to genuine consumer demand.
____________________


Sheikh to splash £250m on world's most luxurious jet


Published Date: 12 February 2008
By Allan Hall
in Berlin
A SAUDI sheikh has asked a German firm to make his A380 Airbus the most luxurious private jet in the world – complete with gold-leaf paintwork.

Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal bin Abdul Aziz al-Saud, a cousin of the Saudi Arabian king and one of the richest Arab businessmen on earth, has a fortune of £15 billion and is one of a handful of individuals to own an A380, the world's largest commerci

He paid close to £160 million for the plane, which is built to accommodate up to 600 passengers. He is spending £90 million customising it to his own extravagant tastes.

Which company has been chosen by the prince to refurbish his jet has not been revealed. But German media reports that he has commissioned a concern in Hamburg, where Airbus Germany has its headquarters.

He has reportedly ordered the plane to be painted in gold leaf on the outside at a cost of £30 million alone.

Inside he is building a lounge to seat a travelling entourage of 25 trusted aides. He has ordered a dining room, seating 14 and panelled in marble, to be constructed next to a bar with curtains to mimic tents of the Arabian desert and a fibre-optic mosaic that will depict a shifting desert scene.

Where economy class usually begins, the prince has ordered a whirlpool bath and sauna to be constructed.

The whirlpool bath will have sensors fitted to tilt it to keep the water – and the prince – firmly in place if the plane hits turbulence while he's taking a dip.

On the upper deck he has ordered a movie theatre with plush leather seats the colour of sand dunes, a gym with running machines and Nautilus exercise equipment and a series of bedrooms with his, naturally, being the most opulent.

Reports speak of the decor as being "Lawrence of Arabia meets Star Wars", the centrepiece of the project being an enormous bed draped with silk to resemble a Bedouin tent.

All rooms have fitted bathrooms en-suite and are linked via an intercom to stewards based at the rear of the plane who will wait on guests throughout flights.

The plane will be ready in two years. Until is it finished the prince, who counts the Savoy Hotel in London among his many assets, will have to get around the world in his run-of-the-mill private 747 Jumbo.

"Prince Al-Waleed's order means that Airbus' sales success in the corporate jet market now extends from its smallest aircraft, the A318 Elite, all the way up to its largest, the A380 Flying Palace," said John Leahy, Airbus chief operating officer for customers.

[NYCAP123]

Not to say that people don't deserve everything they earn (good or bad) and I don't have any idea if or where a line should be drawn, but the flip side of that coin is that there are a lot of people in this world starving to death and both visions tend to make me want to throw up.

[K1W1]

Hi,

HRH The Prince is written about in some detail here.

http://www.kingdom.com.sa/en/mng_ExecChairman.asp

He is also a large yacht Owner with a very large one (Over 100metres) on order if the rumor mills are churning out reliable data.

[YachtForums]

Originally Posted by outmywindow

I do believe that the recent spike in oil prices was due to “speculators” as opposed to genuine consumer demand.

I won't pretend to believe I understand world economics. I'm not that smart. But if I had to guess... I'd go with OutMyWindow's statement above.

We have an entirely new generation of traders, often working from a laptop at Starbucks, who follow a forum on trading where 1000's of members jump in and sway the stock

But what do I know... I don't have a computer.

[Mark I]

Ok, I do live on Long Island and yes the price of gas has come down but last season was painful.

Exxon Mobile is a Corporation. Yes this is a huge profit but what is the margin? As a corporation it is owned by shareholders. You will not see retirees or even state government retirement plans complain about the profits. As debated extensively, there are alot of factors that go into the price of fuel and the government has some responsibility in the matter with limitations on drilling and refining but speculation is a part of the business. No doubt just as speculators reaped big profits on the surge in price, they took a hit on the fast drop.

To expect a corporation that is responsible for generating a profit for its owners (shareholders) to do anything different is unrealistic. As far as the government is concerned (state and fed) they are all front and center to complain about the profit (just like Wall St bonuses) but will also justify increased taxes on everyone else due to budget gaps when those taxable profits and bonuses disappear. We're seeing that right now.

End of my own rant.