[HONGKONG]

What'e wrong with these pics?

And, on another note, my apologies for disappearing from the "Yacht Trivial Pursuit - Photo Round" your answers are, of course correct COENHARBOR. My lesson learned, never, never let your sons use your computer "just to look at something"

[Ken Bracewell]

The top two photos show the US Flag in the position where the club burgee should be flown.

There is nothing wrong with the last two pictures so long as the guests aboard are Bahamians. - You know... it's truly amazing how many sport fishermen carry Bahamiams aboard full time in South Florida

[Seafarer]

Originally Posted by Ken Bracewell

The top two photos show the US Flag in the position where the club burgee should be flown.

US flag etiquette dictates that the US flag is always highest on the same pole or halyard, and if on separate poles, it is flown highest on a taller(the tallest) pole.

The club burgee does not go higher than the US flag, nor does another nation's flag when flown simultaneously (another nation's flag gets flown at the same height as the US flag on US soil).

From a pure flag etiquette standpoint, when other flags are flown simultaneously in the US, the other flags may be smaller but not larger than the US flag.

[Ken Bracewell]

Originally Posted by Seafarer

US flag etiquette dictates that the US flag is always highest on the same pole or halyard, and if on separate poles, it is flown highest on a taller(the tallest) pole.

The club burgee does not go higher than the US flag, nor does another nation's flag when flown simultaneously (another nation's flag gets flown at the same height as the US flag on US soil).

From a pure flag etiquette standpoint, when other flags are flown simultaneously in the US, the other flags may be smaller but not larger than the US flag.

The position of the U.S. Flag on a mast which also has a gaff is a controversial one. According to long-standing maritime tradition, the gaff is the position of honor on a ship and thus is where the U.S. Flag should be flown. Yachting organizations, following the tradition of the seas, erect land-based, gaff-rigged flagpoles and fly the U.S. Flag at the gaff as well, feeling that the gaff is the position of honor on the pole.

The U.S. Code, Title 4, Chapter 1, Section 7(f), which postdates this maritime tradition, states that “when flags of States, cities, or localities, or pennants of societies are flown on the same halyard with the flag of the United States, the latter should always be at the peak. When the flags are flown from adjacent staffs, the flag of the United States should be hoisted first and lowered last. No such flag or pennant may be placed above the flag of the United States or to the United States flag’s right.”

Alternatively, you can visit the US Power Squadron www.usps.org/national/fecom/faq/gaffpole.html

[YachtForums]

This thread has been moved into the General Discussion Forum. Good topic.

[Seafarer]

Originally Posted by Ken Bracewell

The position of the U.S. Flag on a mast which also has a gaff is a controversial one. According to long-standing maritime tradition, the gaff is the position of honor on a ship and thus is where the U.S. Flag should be flown. Yachting organizations, following the tradition of the seas, erect land-based, gaff-rigged flagpoles and fly the U.S. Flag at the gaff as well, feeling that the gaff is the position of honor on the pole.

The U.S. Code, Title 4, Chapter 1, Section 7(f), which postdates this maritime tradition, states that “when flags of States, cities, or localities, or pennants of societies are flown on the same halyard with the flag of the United States, the latter should always be at the peak. When the flags are flown from adjacent staffs, the flag of the United States should be hoisted first and lowered last. No such flag or pennant may be placed above the flag of the United States or to the United States flag’s right.”

Alternatively, you can visit the US Power Squadron www.usps.org/national/fecom/faq/gaffpole.html

I wasn't aware of the tradition of the gaff's prominence; i was working on long-ago and far-away memories from scouting (yes, an Eagle Scout once upon a time!).

Upon googling now, http://www.usflag.org/flagetiquette.html has nothing on the gaff-rigging either, so I'm at a bit of a loss. I suppose the USCG/Power Squadron would know more than I!

Yes, Carl, I agree. It is a good topic, since there is some room for debate and learning on all parts.

(I suppose I've gotten rusty as a restaurateur spending my time behind the bar rather than at the helm.)

[K1W1]

Originally Posted by Seafarer

US flag etiquette dictates that the US flag is always highest on the same pole or halyard, and if on separate poles, it is flown highest on a taller(the tallest) pole.

Hi,

Does this apply all over the world?

[Seafarer]

Originally Posted by K1W1

Hi,

Does this apply all over the world?

That's another good question, for which I don't know the answer.

http://www.flagguys.com/etiq.html#yacht has more on the subject of a gaff-rigged flagpole, as well as US Navy regulations on how flags are to be flown aboard and on land.

http://www.armchairsailorseattle.com/flags.html has some info on sailing into foreign waters, but it's far from definitive.


(please feel free to edit out any links that may not be up to snuff)

[Ken Bracewell]

Originally Posted by K1W1

Hi,

Does this apply all over the world?

Theoritically the only time you would fly a US flag in another territory is if the vessel was of US documentation. In that case, you would certainly fly the flag in the foremost place of honor (the flag staff). That being said, on a boat there will almost always be flags flying higher- the club burgee and owners flag are flown from the pigstick on a sailboat, and the owner's flag will always be the highest.

I suppose that ashore in another country the only time the US flag would be the highest ranking flag would be on sovereign soil (i.e. US Embassy).

[NYCAP123]

Most of the boats I captain fly only the American flag, a YC burgee, courtesy flag, quarentine, etc. so please excuse my ignorance. I recentlly began working a US flagged 62' express cruiser (In U.S. waters). She flies the US flag on the port side aft roof forward of the transom, and (2) smaller foreign flags (representing the owner's countries of origin) lower and on the transom plus a YC burgee on the forward jackstaff. Before we start ticking people off can anyone enlighten me to the proper placement for these flags. (The foreign flags are on clamp-on staffs which can be moved to the mast.

[K1W1]

Hi,

Where is the yacht registered?

I don't see any reason why anyone would fly two foreign flags ( assuming they are courtesy flags at the same time) other than poor procedure.

[NYCAP123]

The yacht is U.S. registered. These are not courtesy flags, but rather honoring the owner's home or birth country. To the best of my knowledge there is no proper place for such flags, but is there a permissable place? I've seen such flags flown from the halyards of sailboats and from the outriggers of Sport Fishers. I can't really dictate to an owner of a small craft that he remove such a flag, but there are places where we are certainly going to hear about it. Any suggestions?

[K1W1]

Hi,

I see you edited your original post before replying to mine.

Have a look at Post No 2 by Ken Bracewell and the photo right above it in Post 1.

Although you won't have the same outriggers is your setup similar?

Also, here is another very informative page from the USPS- No Cap, not the Post Office :-)

[NYCAP123]

"None is so blind as he who will not see". Thanks K1W1. Just rechecked post 1 from Hong Cong and got my answer. Your page from the USPS didn't get through?? I had checked Chapmans, but that just left me confused. I've been running hard for the past 18 days. Mind is frying. Thanks for the 2nd set of eyes.

[K1W1]

Hi,

Sorry about getting your hopes up and then not giving you the goods

http://www.usps.org/f_stuff/etiquett.html