[AMG]

Thanks Codger, good reading. I don´t think he is far off in his ideas. Today we are getting more scientists reconsidering their earlier alarms, like this example http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...s/5693436.html

The fact that news not supporting the mainstream AGW ideas are now published, is also a healthy sign.

[catmando]

Originally Posted by Codger

When I start to feel overwhelmed by the caterwauling chorus of those experts that seem to have taken on the cause of global warming with the fervour of a snake handling tent preacher there is some solace to be found in the well reasoned even tempered heresies of Freeman Dyson.

For a small dose of thoughtfulness scroll down to "The Third Culture"

http://www.edge.org/documents/archiv...19.html#dysonf

I've always liked Dyson as he is quite the "freethinker" in Science. His Dyson Sphere is a very interesting concept. Too bad it's hundreds, probably thousands of years in the future.

As to his criticisms of global warming, I think he should pay more attention to the glacial melting we see all over the world, not just at the poles, which is causing sea levels to rise, thereby threatening low-lying islands.

[AMG]

I think Dyson covered some of this, but sea levels is an interesting topic in itself. Did you know that the sea level at the Maldives is 104 meter lower than the average level? We have a Swedish researcher who have studied why the Maldives have not experienced any sea level rise recently. Among his papers are also thoughts of the future, like this; http://www.sasnet.lu.se/mornertext.pdf

[swing]

Has anyone got first hand personal observations of a sea level rise ?
Storm surges are clearly happening more often from what I see on TV, what about during the average day ?

[Loren Schweizer]

Originally Posted by swing

Has anyone got first hand personal observations of a sea level rise ?
Storm surges are clearly happening more often from what I see on TV, what about during the average day ?

Certainly. Every day from my office windows, I observe the sea level to rise and then fall later in the day. Some days it falls and then rises.

Taking my smart-aleck cap off, I have avoided adding my two-cents to this polemic thus far, but I count my self with Codger and Lars in admitting to some hefty skepticism of this whole GW thing. As long as there are ranters & ravers with obvious agendas based on questionable pseudo-science, I am beginning to strongly believe that your grandchildren will look back on this hysteria and laugh.

I hope.

[YachtNews]

Originally Posted by Loren Schweizer

I am beginning to strongly believe that your grandchildren will look back on this hysteria and laugh.

I hope.

I personally think that the situation is much more serious than those above words connote Loren...

[AMG]

Originally Posted by swing

Storm surges are clearly happening more often from what I see on TV, what about during the average day ?

Yes, it is strange, since we got TV the whole world has changed. Or did we not know enough what was going on before we got TV?

Here is a scientist who has changed his mind on storm predictions recently:
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...s/5693436.html

[brian eiland]

Originally Posted by Loren Schweizer

... but I count my self with Codger and Lars in admitting to some hefty skepticism of this whole GW thing. As long as there are ranters & ravers with obvious agendas based on questionable pseudo-science, I am beginning to strongly believe that your grandchildren will look back on this hysteria and laugh. I hope.

I can see where it is easy to remain sceptical, particularly when you consider all of the other things that could drastically change our climate in an instant.

But when you see those ice core samples that the gentleman has collected over a great number of years, and his analysis of their record of our climate history, that's hard to argue with.

Sorry I don't have a reference site for that work. Remember seeing it on a climate special somewhere lately....actually it might have been contained in the "Crude" special film I made a posting about.

[AMG]

Originally Posted by brian eiland

But when you see those ice core samples that the gentleman has collected over a great number of years, and his analysis of their record of our climate history, that's hard to argue with.

I don´t know exactly what you refer to, but there was a documentary produced where the ice cores were discussed, called "The Great Global Warming Swindle".

[brian eiland]

I'm not sure of the reference as I stated, but I found these

http://www.gisp2.sr.unh.edu/MoreInfo...ores_Past.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_core

http://nicl.usgs.gov/

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/warnings/stories/

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/warnings/stories/nojs.html

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0123110405.htm

[brian eiland]

Originally Posted by outmywindow

I actually read about 1/2 of that article .
But, being told that I'm still of sound body and mind, I will just go with the Global Satellite Imaging evidence as supplied by NASA and it's scientists.

You can see how the Passage on the Canadian side is finally navigable, although only for a limited time at present, this will change over time and have huge implications for global commercial shipping.
The ice cap melt spans 1979-2003

There was another program I saw just this past weekend that was addressing primarily seals, but aside from that it mentioned how IMPORTANT the ice cover was for the life of Plankton, a very major food source for many of the ocean creatures. If the ice caps continue to shrink, that food source may be diminished as well.

The ocean's health is SO IMPORTANT to the health of the EARTH. I expressed that concern in these postings:

http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/ge...-sea-life.html


...If we permit our oceans to become a cemetery, we may damage its alter ego the atmosphere and ultimately our planet itself.

Our oceans are a precious resource, even beyond our own imagination. We need more qualified academics in pure oceanography, in contrast to those drawn away into military weapons development or searching/developing oil resources in our seas. We need to get more kids excited about ocean studies… …initiate and perpetuate their interest

http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/4907-post11.html

[AMG]

Brian, I was reading all of your Ice Core links above and found nothing new of interest. One was saying: "The ice core record from Vostok, Antarctica shows a near perfect correlation between CO2 and temperature". Another said about the same but also that nothing is known of what is causing what.

Since the Vostok ice cores correlation has a time lag for CO2 of 400 to 800 years to temperature, it seems as CO2 is not the driving force behind global warming. For the time being I think this topic is dropped from the general AGW discussions.

Today it is more focused on Biofuel production versus doubled food prices causing world starvation.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Loren Schweizer

As long as there are ranters & ravers with obvious agendas based on questionable pseudo-science, I am beginning to strongly believe that your grandchildren will look back on this hysteria and laugh.

I hope.

That makes me think of the "a witch must weigh as much as a duck" scene in MP's Holy Grail.

[NYCAP123]

We've all seen the receding glaciers, and I heard today that the north pole is predicted to be ice free this summer. Obviously GW is happening. The question is whether it's man made or just part of nature's normal cycle. I kind of hope we did it, because we know what we've done to screw this place up and it can't be a bad idea to clean it up a bit. Even if it's not our doing, it might help. The alternative is to tell the grand-kids to invest in water wings and sun tan lotion.
NOT SCIENTIFIC

[AMG]

Originally Posted by NYCAP123

We've all seen the receding glaciers, and I heard today that the north pole is predicted to be ice free this summer. Obviously GW is happening.

The reason the North Pole may be ice free this summer is La Nina. Last time we had a lasting La Nina like now, we got a nice summer here in the Baltic and it was warm up in the polar area as well. While the Pacific and central US were colder than usual, you can see it on this map. The Global Warming has described a flat curve for a decade now and will probably remain so for as long as La Nina is going on. Then we have another five years before we can say if the previous warming will continue or decline. In general terms we are approaching another Ice age...

So I agree that looking after our environment is the best we can do meanwhile. No less, no more.