Captains: Question on rules for nav lights when in US waters

C4ENG · 09-20-2006, 07:50 PM

I love how you can always get answers on this site.

Here's the question:
For a larger yacht offshore cruising after sunset, having the nav lights on and set to legal standards, but then wants to run with other vessel lights on as well.. aft flood lights, gang way lights ect.
Would that be illegal? Is there Coast Guard rules that try to prevent the extra lights to be used for no other purpose except for trying to make the vessel more visual? (Although I do know that it can inteferre with others trying to make out your direction from a far.)

Kevin · 09-20-2006, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C4ENG

(Although I do know that it can inteferre with others trying to make out.)

Yeah, I'd imagine all those lights really could.

(LOL I got that far in the sentence and started laughing before I could finish reading, sorry!)

Seriously though, there must be some provision for running with lights though, otherwise the cruise ships would be getting chased by the CG all the time.

nas130 · 09-20-2006, 08:46 PM

I am 99% sure that as long as the extra lights do not interfere with your steaming lights you are in good shape. I would try to dim them a bit though. I have the rules of the road on the boat, I will check tomorrow.

nas

Norseman · 09-20-2006, 09:21 PM

I belive it says:

As long as any other lights are not to be confused with required lights as determined by the Administrator.

Use common sense here guys:

I have gone down the New River at night in December with some arsehole in front of me displaying high intensity reindeers and santa-clauses all over his gin-palace 47' amateur barge becuase he was in the spirit and it looked cool..

I lost all my night vision and was blinded to the point that safe navigation was compromised.

When at Anchor however, ya can never display too many or too much lights.

Underway, stick with the rules and use brain.

C4ENG · 09-20-2006, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norseman

Underway, stick with the rules and use brain.

Norseman
You are right. I had just found the rule in the USCG web site

RULE 20
APPLICATION

(a) Rules in this part shall be complied with in all weathers.

(b) The Rules concerning lights shall be complied with from sunset to sunrise, and during such times no other lights shall be exhibited, except such lights which cannot be mistaken for the lights specified in these Rules or do not impair their visibility or distinctive character, or interfere with the keeping of a proper look-out.

This is how this started, I was running with a captain who liked to run at night with all his lights on all over the boat. It would irritate something fierce becuase I knew it had to be wrong, but I did not know if there was a actual law. I would politely ask "Do you think it's right to be running like this?" Then he would say some BS about others being able to see him. I am the engineer and it is not my department or responsibility, or is it if he is jeopardizing my safety? I had then figured I did not feel like fighting that battle.

Norseman · 09-20-2006, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Then he would say some BS about others being able to see him.

Yeah, but others are also supposed to see which direction and angle he is going..Can't do that if the boat looks like a Christmas Tree...

The rules were written before Radar and AIS came on the market and unless the Rules change, turn off the entertainment lights and navigate by the book.

Quote:

or is it if he is jeopardizing my safety?

Yeah, safety could be compromised if some idiot are flying the wrong lights at night.

Not sure you could demand he turn 'em off, that could be close to mutiny as the captain is still in charge and responsible for safety, blah, blah.

Be the world best diplomat and ask leading questions instead: Uh Cap, aren't we supposed to use proper nav lights when underway at night..? Not sure I remember all these other lights from the book?

CaptTom · 09-20-2006, 10:22 PM

C4ENG,
Norseman is right (and we'll save nas130 the trip to the boat).
From the book, Rule 20 states "The rules concerning lights shall be complied from sunset to sunrise, and during such times no other lights shall be exhibited, except such lights as cannot be mistaken for the lights specified in these rules or do no impare their visibility or disctinctive character..."
Now, if you have a few halogens burning from your stern and someone can't see the stern light, that could be a problem.
As for lighting when anchored, Rule 30 states "... a vessel over 100 meters or more in length shall also use the available working lights to illuminate her deck".
Capt Tom

airship · 09-21-2006, 03:23 PM

Now that we've had all the serious replies...

Is there any truth in the rumour that back in the '50s, Hollywood moghuls purposedly had their skippers replace the light bulb in the port red navigation light aboard their yachts with a lower wattage one...just in case?!

CaptTom · 09-21-2006, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by airship

Now that we've had all the serious replies...

Gee, and I thought it was a serious question...

YachtNews · 09-21-2006, 08:15 PM

Well..this rule should apply accross the board..i see some containerships running with all kinds lights all over the island/accom block and the gangway floods are on and you can't make out the port or starboard lights...which is not really good for nearby vessels tryign to visually pick you up.

Kevin · 09-21-2006, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C4ENG

(b) The Rules concerning lights shall be complied with from sunset to sunrise, and during such times no other lights shall be exhibited, except such lights which cannot be mistaken for the lights specified in these Rules or do not impair their visibility or distinctive character, or interfere with the keeping of a proper look-out.

Interesting rule... but it seems to me that it's quite open to interpretation. Who decides what lights are ok to have on, and which could be mistaken for something else? It seems very vague and subjective.

CaptTom · 09-21-2006, 08:42 PM

Kevin,
Of course they'll decide that after there has been an accident.
Capt Tom

C4ENG · 09-21-2006, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin

It seems very vague and subjective.

It certainly is very open for argument. But I Like what Capt Tom said about being in an accident. You very well could be held in the wrong by having had the extra lights on that you assumed were not interferring, but the other vessel may claim differently. I believe if I were the judge in that court case, I would believe the vessel that was lit correctly to the letter. It cerntainly does then seem to make it quite foolish to be running with those extra lights on with just that amongst the saftey part of it.