[nas130]

Very good points by Garry.

From a crews perspective I would assume the work load is very high with little down time for repairs. It would not be like a charter where you work hard for tips, I doubt the "owners" are giving tips on the scale of normal charters. I can also see scheduling, paying for fuel, damages to the boat, etc.. being a problem. What happens to older boats that need major work, some of the owners might not be so quick to write checks for major repairs. I can see a 500,000 dollar shipyard period turning into quite the headache. When you want to sell your share who wants to buy a quarter share of an old boat?

However, I have heard from my friend at Monocle that the captains really enjoy working on the boats because there is little contact with the owners. Monocle manages the boat more than normal management companies.

[vacationboat]

That is why I propose new yachts sold at 8-10 yrs old, would be good to hear from any crew members on fractional matters.

Jon

[K1W1]

Hi,

Originally Posted by nas130

Monocle manages the boat more than normal management companies.

Do you think you could provide an overview of how Monocle manages the boat in this way vs normal companies?

[Garry Hartshorn]

I would suggest that if you want these vessels to present and maintain a yacht standard that you need to allow for 6 months a year for maintenance and crew down time. Commercial vessels are not presented to the same standard and are therefore easier and quicker to maintain.

[nas130]

Originally Posted by K1W1

Hi,

Do you think you could provide an overview of how Monocle manages the boat in this way vs normal companies?

K1W1 this was second hand information, but from what I understood scheduling, maintenance, crewing, etc is through Monocle, they do not necessarily need any of the owners approval to change the above. I am really not sure how much input the owners have in changes to the boat.

I do know that they make their money off of the management of the boat, not off of the sale of the boat.

Hearing about multiple owners always reminds me of the boat that has 6 owners and no management company. The captain begging the owners for money, one owner wants to change the interior, one wants a new tender, and the other a new ski. Possibly the hardest captains job in the industry.

nas

[K1W1]

Hi,

I did a relieving job on a 50m Feadship in 2000( 4 months) and again in 2002 ( 2.5 months)which had two Owners. Owner A didn't use the boat very much but liked it a lot and was willing to spend money on it. Owner B used it as much as possible and wouldn't spend anything on it.

The two Owners were friends at the outset, it was managed by what was and still is supposed to be a reputable management house. The condition of the vessel deteriorated during it's dual ownership stage and managements single minded determination to keep costs down to maintain the " good guy" status that they enjoy by both taking shortcuts and having the vessels inspected on their behalf by inexperienced ex Capatins and Engineers who did not really have the experience or knowledge for the positions and responsibiliteis which they were thrust upon them.

It is my understanding that Owner A has now bought the boat outright, he spends a sufficient amount on it , has replaced the management and enoys himself immensley. I have recently been sent a picture of her and she look fantastic.

Look , here is a post that ends with a question for all the yachting buffs here.

Anyone who cares to guess the name of this boat must admit their role in it or it's crew either past or present to be acknowledged.

Mostly though this is a story about shared ( Fractional), Ownership.

[Ken Bracewell]

Originally Posted by K1W1

Look , here is a post that ends with a question for all the yachting buffs here...

Anyone who cares to guess the name of this boat must admit their role in it or it's crew either past or present to be acknowledged.

Solemates?

[airship]

Traditionally, the ownership of a "trading" vessel under British registry was divided into 64 shares. One could individually own just 1/64th share of the ship, or a group of upto 5 individuals could co-own a 1/64th share or multiples thereof. I think at least 50% of the shares must be held by UK citizens or at least UK registered companies...

Further, I do believe that the term "owner's cabin" dates from a previous century, when most "owners" did not necessarily wish to spend their holidays with or without their families aboard these vessels...but then again, the objectives behind such "ownership" was never less than one "of profit"!

Yet, here we are in the 21st Century. And the phrase "Joint or co-ownership of superyachts" simply refuses to go away, even if the vessels concerned still only have one "owner's cabin"...or no longer carry cargoes?!

So, which owner will have use of the yacht for this year's Monaco GP or Cannes Film Festival, pray...?!

When it comes to superyachts, let's stop calling it "fractional ownership" but the closest that's so far been achieved to the illusion. Which is perhaps a "principal" owner who reserves a certain period for his exclusive use, whether or not that is at fixed or variable dates from year to year...?! In other words, it becomes nothing more exciting than a glorified yacht management exercise combined with central agency for charters...

But with a difference perhaps: As the "conceptor" of the fractional ownership program, responsible for the initial financing and building of the superyacht in the first place, your intention is to remain one of the (major) fractional owners without ever really wishing to use the vessel as an "owner" might wish to. Your first challenge is to convince the first (and often only) major fractional owner is that he's buying into a yacht which is really worth say upto twice what the actual newbuild cost...?! Then, in order to reinforce this illusion, enlist the aid of well-known "names" to buy a few shares...?!

But who really knows, if chartering out the superyacht's "unreserved time" actually does bring in sufficient revenues to pay for the running costs, then perhaps more than one are on a "winning streak"...? At least, until it's time that the yacht is finally sold for its true market price, at which stage one imagines, those that paid "twice what the yacht was worth new" might be in for a small surprise...?!

Seriously though, when it comes to all those oil-sheikhs, who tend to use their "alcohol-free gin-palaces" in the Med for 2 or 3 weeks of the year only, this sort of "fractional-ownership" program might actually be a lot more economical than their current arrangements with the Eastern Mediterranean managers with whom they usually entrust their floating assets...?!

My 2 cents worth...

[vacationboat]

Originally Posted by airship

Traditionally, the ownership of a "trading" vessel under British registry was divided into 64 shares. One could individually own just 1/64th share of the ship, or a group of upto 5 individuals could co-own a 1/64th share or multiples thereof. I think at least 50% of the shares must be held by UK citizens or at least UK registered companies... So its worked before!

Further, I do believe that the term "owner's cabin" dates from a previous century, when most "owners" did not necessarily wish to spend their holidays with or without their families aboard these vessels...but then again, the objectives behind such "ownership" was never less than one "of profit"! Mine Too

Yet, here we are in the 21st Century. And the phrase "Joint or co-ownership of superyachts" simply refuses to go away, even if the vessels concerned still only have one "owner's cabin"...or no longer carry cargoes?! Do not see the issue here only one owner at a time will occupy the boat.

So, which owner will have use of the yacht for this year's Monaco GP or Cannes Film Festival, pray...?! The programme will be set several years in advance with owners given a mixture of high, mid and low season weeks. One way to help this is to have duplicate boats in the Med and the Carribean so the season becomes longer with owners alternating between two identical yachts.

When it comes to superyachts, let's stop calling it "fractional ownership" but the closest that's so far been achieved to the illusion. Which is perhaps a "principal" owner who reserves a certain period for his exclusive use, whether or not that is at fixed or variable dates from year to year...?! In other words, it becomes nothing more exciting than a glorified yacht management exercise combined with central agency for charters... No there is no principal owner all owners will have equal shares

But with a difference perhaps: As the "conceptor" of the fractional ownership program, responsible for the initial financing and building of the superyacht in the first place, your intention is to remain one of the (major) fractional owners without ever really wishing to use the vessel as an "owner" might wish to. Your first challenge is to convince the first (and often only) major fractional owner is that he's buying into a yacht which is really worth say upto twice what the actual newbuild cost...?! Then, in order to reinforce this illusion, enlist the aid of well-known "names" to buy a few shares...?! Yachts could only be purchased once all potential owners have signed up and paid deposits. The managment comany will not retain a portion, other models to retain up to 50% in founding company hands.

But who really knows, if chartering out the superyacht's "unreserved time" actually does bring in sufficient revenues to pay for the running costs, then perhaps more than one are on a "winning streak"...? At least, until it's time that the yacht is finally sold for its true market price, at which stage one imagines, those that paid "twice what the yacht was worth new" might be in for a small surprise...?! Yachts do of course depreciate and members would be under no illusion as to the final value of the vessel being around half of that paid.

Seriously though, when it comes to all those oil-sheikhs, who tend to use their "alcohol-free gin-palaces" in the Med for 2 or 3 weeks of the year only, this sort of "fractional-ownership" program might actually be a lot more economical than their current arrangements with the Eastern Mediterranean managers with whom they usually entrust their floating assets...?! I think this is how Monacles programme actually operates they get existing owners to sell equity in exchange for time.

My 2 cents worth...

Thanks I appreciate it.

[kopsea]

Vacationclub,

You should also check out ResortShips. Interesting model but I'm curious how they make money...

http://iyclub.com/index.html

[K1W1]

Hi,

I don't think these guys are actually up and running as big an operation as their website would have you believe.

It has some pretty substantial claims and one would think that an operation of this magnitude would have come to the surface and been known about by at least one of the 521 Viewers prior to Kopsea adding the link as his first post.

Good Work Kopsea and welcome to YF.

[YES!]

Great topic which addresses - as was previously noted - the concept that any of us can own a piece of luxury (air, condo, resort, car) for a short duration at probably a ridiculuous (but worth the experience) cost.

I am working with a client right now in the design of a floating yacht club. We are talking "members only" to use the vessel for all the fun and toys it offers rather than the "ownership" of a luxury, shiny, formal yacht.

Your comments are invited as to your thoughts about being able to use this "club" vessel, say 200 feet long that has on board 6 luxurious cabins for rent; a fine dining sky lounge restaurant; a casual al fresco sun deck dining area and tiki bar; the use of a 40 foot sport fish that is maintained on board; jet skis; Laser sailboats; motorcycles; bicycles; kayaks; ski boats; RIBS; windsurfers; and a dive boat with dive locker including all the gear.

The vessel is not a "Pelorus", but presents the fit and finish of the shadow boats that you have seen featured here in the Forums.

The vessel would be available for 4 months in Mexico and 4 months in the Pacific Northwest/Alaska with the other 4 months for crew rest and maintenance. Perhaps, Caribbean and New England; or Mediteranean and Red Sea?

This is all still very conceptual, but applies specifically to fractional ownership in order to gain all the joy of being on the water without all the hassles of ownership and at a fraction of the cost.

I look forward to your comments and ideas towards further discussion.

Regards to all.

Stan

[Innomare]

I believe it can work

- on a new vessel, to be sold after 5 years with resale price divided over the owners. Keep it longer and the maintenance debates get started.
- a very detailed agreement between the owners (times predetermined with swapping allowed; are owners allowed to charter out their times, etc.)
- it doesn't make sense to have two boats (one in the med, one in the caribbean), as each of them (and their crew) will be unused for half of the year. Ship it with dockwise or comparable.
- Have a few days to a week between each time-share period, so the crew can properly prepare the boat (and transfer it if needed).
- I don't think it makes sense to have this with more than 2-4 owners. People want to be on their boat at Christmas, Easter and in July. If you have 8-10 owners, they can wait years before they finally get their boat at the right time.
- central management deciding over crew issues, maintenance, even sailing area. The owners perhaps shouldn't even know each other. They should have the illusion that they are the only owner.
- for the design, I think a more "conservative" styling has more chance to succeed, unless you take a proven popular boat like a Wallypower for example. A Feadship F45 could be a good candidate, as it's likely to retain its value pretty well. Or a Heesen 3700 series or 4400 series.

and...

you need a good chef!

If owners know exactly when and where they will be able to use the boat and how much it will cost them (no hidden extra's), there could be a market for it.

But I agree with Lars that most clients in this class would prefer their own (smaller) boat, with their own paintings on the wall and their own private bed and bathroom. They wouldn't rent out their houses either, for exactly the same reasons.


Bruno