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Hurricane Damaged Boats

 
 
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Old 11-29-2005, 04:03 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catamaran
Wow, so when the numbers come in from Wilma it will completly surpass everything else

Wilma's numbers (marine related) will not be anywhere near Katrina's. The damage to boats from Wilma was minimal from what I've seen, which includes touring the intracoastal from North Palm Beach to Southern Broward County.

BUT... we have a mounting problem. Insurance, across a broad spectrum is being affected. Already, homeowners insurance for waterfront property in Florida is difficult to obtain and the primary insurer (state owned Citizens) is on the brink of bankruptcy. Rate hikes in excess of 100% have been proposed for the tri-county area. If this comes to pass, it may be the straw that broke the camels back for many homeowners.

It's hard to say how this will effect the marine industry, but it's reasonable to assume we'll see rate hikes and/or increased deductibles.
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Old 11-30-2005, 01:37 AM   #17
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Carl,
We've seen how much damage the hurricane did to fiberglass boats.
What about those kevlar- and/or carbon fiber-reinforced boats? How did they stand up against the hurricane? Do you know of any that were damaged?
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Old 11-30-2005, 02:40 AM   #18
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I don´t know if Carl has more on this, but I guess you will never know if there is any damage to carbon reinforced boats. Mainly because there are few if any with carbon above the waterline and if so, it is most likely a racing boat stored out of the water.

The kevlar and carbon in more normal boats is otherwise mainly used in internal stringers and spots of high stress. To make the boat strong without adding weight.

But carbon as used in boats is also sensitive to shocks in the "wrong" direction and I think that outside the military applications it is rarely used to withstand collisions.
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Old 11-30-2005, 10:24 AM   #19
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Lars,
Thanks for the info. Yes, you are right. We may never know if any of those kevlar or carbon-reinforced boats were damaged.
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Old 11-30-2005, 11:02 AM   #20
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Give it a couple of months for all the data to be loaded. Any insurance broker worth his salt will be able to bring up the stats on damage by hull material or builder or any of a dozen other parameters. That information is what they'll use to come up with the damage risk level and determine the premium cost. The insurance industry gathers information to levels that most people wouldn't believe.
What percentage of the total number of carbon fibre hulls in any given area made claims and what the cost of those claims was, will be information in the system
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Old 11-30-2005, 02:24 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMG
But carbon as used in boats is also sensitive to shocks in the "wrong" direction and I think that outside the military applications it is rarely used to withstand collisions.

Lars, is this what they call Tensile Failure and Flexural Failure of the carbon fiber structure?
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Old 11-30-2005, 03:20 PM   #22
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I don´t know what they call it, but carbon in bottoms and stringers are often laid as longitudinal cords which is stiffening like a torsion bar. But if you hit it from the side it will easily crack. This is why you have kevlar as a woven fibre where such impacts are expected. All laminated in epoxy or vinylester (before normally polyester) together with different glassfibre qualities, some are prefab with carbon cords integrated.
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Old 11-30-2005, 05:07 PM   #23
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Thanks, Lars.
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Old 12-01-2005, 02:39 PM   #24
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I didn't chime in on this thread Arnie because the answers from Lars were so complete, it wasn't necessary.

I’d like to add there are many different types of carbon fiber cloths for different applications, ranging from filament wound, to plain weaves, woven twills and even... chopped. As Lars said, CF is mostly used for structural rigidity, but its impact resistance suffers because carbon fibers are brittle in nature. The molecular structure of carbon under compression usually results in breaking, not bending.

There are some drawbacks to building hulls from carbon as well. It’s a difficult material to saturate with resin, especially around compound curves and its shear compression, as well as impact tolerance is inferior to glass, and especially Kevlar. While Kevlar has a greater resistance to puncture, it doesn’t mix well with water. It has a tendency to wick, unless both sides of the cloth are bonded or laminated with a material impervious to absorption.

While carbon is a good choice for ultimate strength to weight, such as racing sailboats and performance aircraft, it’s not the best solution for our world, where pilings are looking to leave their mark on rub-rails. There are some other issues with carbon too. Carbon is a conductor of both electricity and frequency. You have to be extra careful when wiring a carbon hull. Wires tend to chaff easily when exposed to carbon laminate edges. And insulating a rigid structure from the sound and vibration inherent where large motors are present is an even bigger challenge with carbon, which has resonant properties bordering a sub-woofer.

And last, there have been some long-term studies over carbon fatigue from U/V exposure. While this is generally not an issue for a gel-coated hull, it can be an issue when carbon is painted. More importantly, when epoxy resins are exposed to long-term heat or U/V, they can become more brittle. I encountered this scenario a few years ago with disastrous results.
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Old 12-01-2005, 03:26 PM   #25
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Thumbs up

Carl (Lars and Codger too),
Thanks for the additional info.
I'm learning a lot from you guys.
Arnie
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