[brian eiland]

Originally Posted by Bamboo

Brian ... did you not think/understand that your post would result in a nasty political discussion? If you did and still posted it - shame on you. If you did not then God help you and help us if you vote in the USA.

I was not trying to make a political statement with my posting, but rather seek to get people (and politicians) to give serious INTELLIGENT considerations as to why and how we hand out tax payer credits (subsidies) to major businesses that are operating for a profit, and making HUGE profits. As I noted I have owned my own businesses and other friends of mine also. We were 'for profit' businesses that never got subsidies, although there were a few times I would have liked them (particuarly when I had over a million dollars of floor planned small boat inventory and the government decided to raise the the prime interest rate to sky high numbers (my floor plan was tied to 1.5 % above prime).

'For profit businesses' that are no longer struggling to get started, AND are making huge profits, should NOT be blessed with tax cedits/subsidies.

If you take a little time to read, I think you will find I have been concerned with these 'oil problems' for a long time. I've contributed quite a number of postings on this subject thread:
http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/ya...e-program.html

And yes I do consider myself an informed and intelligent voter in this country.

[brian eiland]

Yes and if there is one good thing to come out of this 24 hour news cycle is that some of this 'money driven voting' by our representatives gets greater exposure than it has in the past. I hope it continues to get close scrutiny so we can sort out this lobby crap that prevents these representatives from voting for the American people rather than who has the most bills in their pockets to spread around Wash DC.

[carelm]

Does it seem feasible that there might be a movement to CNG powered boats/yachts? In order for this to work there would have to be infrastructure in place though. Given CNG's current price per gallon at about $2.00 and some of the projections for future diesel prices what do some of you in the business think?

[RicF]

Originally Posted by catmando

... And we need a government program to fund these efforts.

Yeah that's what we need ... a government program to pick the winners and losers ... How's that been working out for ya?

[ArcanisX]

Originally Posted by brian eiland

I was not trying to make a political statement with my posting, but rather seek to get people (and politicians) to give serious INTELLIGENT considerations as to

- political statement -
- personal experience story -
- political statement -

If you take a little time to read, I think you will find I have been concerned with these 'oil problems' for a long time. I've contributed quite a number of postings on this subject thread:
http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/ya...e-program.html

And yes I do consider myself an informed and intelligent voter in this country.

Brian, I hope you are kidding us...

[brian eiland]

Gas leak at Elgin?Franklin offshore field ? the story as it unfolds - Offshore Technology

Now imagine something like this or a Deepwater Horizon event happening in the artic reserve. What if that huge spill of crude in the Gulf of Mexico had occured under the winter ice cap (trapped so to say)....and in a remote area where there are no ships to help with clean up, and there is lacking many other pieces of heavy equipment to assist i a clean up??

Yes they tout that their surface area of influence is very small, but that only mask a much bigger potential problem. That why I say these matters of new development must be approached in an intelligent manner.

[brian eiland]

....from a posting of mine on the subject thread CRUDE

There are a number of other 'ocean management' questions most offshore boaters should become better acquainted with. Last year while visiting a friend in Lunenburg NS, I took a tour thru a very very nice marine museum they have there. Oh, but to view the wonderful and bountiful harvest of COD, etc, that once was the Grand Banks fishery !! It's FISHED OUT now!!

I also spent some time in SE Asia, and I've seen what once was a bountiful supply of ocean food from Vietnam and Thailand. They are getting fished out as well.

Boaters need to help with conservation of our oceans and our fuel resources.

If you take the time to view that film 'CRUDE' I referenced at the start of this discussion, I believe you will find a VERY important link between crude oil initial formations, extractions, and the carbon molecule's loop back to the destruction of our ocean system currents. With that destruction there is likely the end of human life on the earth.

[brian eiland]

...from another posting of mine on that 'CRUDE' subject thread.

Imagine an under ice oil spill that could kill off that huge 'food factory' up there that represents the micro-biology of the food chain that feeds many of the ocean species ....


I might make the suggestion that you review some portions of this film 'CRUDE'

...a you tube presentation of the film
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...40072407639740
(I just found a video of this film on a Google site. The sound is screwed up for the first couple of minutes, but then it seems to straighten out)

...now fast forward to minute 59:00 to the discussion of this 'carbon loop' that produced the very conditions that resulted in the formation of the crude oil in the first place.

Imagine an ocean that is losing much of its sea-life, and then an anoxic event that pushes it into greater stagnation....Ocean Stagnation, it has occurred before. (1hr:02 minutes of the film)

Then have a look at 'the engine of ocean circulation' (1hr:8min:30sec)

Questioning anoxic events?? Take a look at some lakes in upstate New York (1:10:30)

If we allow our oceans to die, and some of this related to our fuel (carbon molecule) managements, we may well severely challenge man's survivability on this planet.

[ArcanisX]

Don't worry too much about that, Brian.
By all accounts, we (human civilization) will run out of oil/gas, which will cause us to... "downsize" like 100x (approximate population sustainable by this planet without extensive use of finite energy sources) far before we manage to do any irreversible harm to the ecosphere

[carelm]

Brian,

There is another threat to ocean life, ocean acidification. It hasn't got the press that global warming has gotten, but it may be a bigger threat. In our area, the Chesapeake Bay may be impacted a bit more than an open ocean. Apparently the oyster growth is being negatively affected by it.

Ocean Acidification

[ekiqa]

Originally Posted by ArcanisX

Brian, I hope you are kidding us...

I didn't realise that there were people stupid enough to buy into the lie that Big Oil is poor and desperate, and needs billions of dollars from governments to keep them afloat.

BP = income 2011 $39.81 billion
Chevron = $47.63 billion
ExxonMobil= $73.26 billion
Shell= $55.66 billion
Total S= Euro 24.98 billion
Conoco = $23.01 billion

Do those companies really need government handouts?

[brian eiland]

Originally Posted by ekiqa

Do those companies really need government handouts?

Again, go to this video, and just move that 'triangular curser' along the bottom to minute 4:44
Senate filibuster kills (another) bid to end oil subsidies - Video on msnbc.com

...or you might just look at the conversation leading up to that beginning at minute 2:42