[talkingstone]

I was sorry to see that this thread has been closed. I was finding it very interesting reading especially some of the input from "Five Yacht Owner" and of course "Ladies Choice" I believe that we did have an opportunity to follow 'Ladies Choice" through to the end if she was up to it. If we could put our "I'm bigger and better" ego's aside, I would like to ask Ladies Choice if she would be willing to keep us posted if she has the time, on all apects of her purchase, design requirements, relationship with builder and the final delivery of her beautiful yacht, what ever she may be.

[KCook]

I see we are going to need a popcorn smilie after all

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by talkingstone

I was sorry to see that this thread has been closed. I was finding it very interesting reading especially some of the input from "Five Yacht Owner" and of course "Ladies Choice"

On the other hand, you have to see it from Carl's side... at some point the thread changed from opinions for the sake of discussion to arguement for the sake of bashing.

It's unfortunate the thread degenerated to that point though.

[Ladies choice]

Am I to understand that in asking questions I cannot be given opinions on various yachts? If that is the case then what good will this forum or any forum concerning yachts do for me?

I saw no bashing, I saw honest opinions based on expierences from both sides of the point. IF a yacht sank it sank! IF a yacht hit some rocks and wasn't reinforced or met certain safety standards and it sank it is still sunk and something to be learned from!!

IF pumps were not turned on, or portholes opened, whatever the reasons, it isnt so much the reasons or even the construction that may have contributed to it but human error, Either in the design, the implemention, the maintenance or construction techniques used. I sure the heck would like to know as much as I can about the human error side and pitfalls, shortcomings etc.. of any and all manufacturers and crews.

IF I am unable to learn from throwing out questions to those in the know, then perhaps I should reconsider spending 20m plus on something I will not be able to get a straight answer from anyone on! I trust my broker sure, he is a friend as well, but let's face it, he is in it for the money just as much as any shipyard is and when money is involved, truth can be set aside or not revealed to full discovery, due diligence is what I was trying to attempt by even coming to a forum like this.

Let me make and formulate my own opinions from such discovery, from talking and more important listening to those that have far more expierence then I do at this point. But if I am unable to do that on here by having threads closed, then why bother with my time so that I and others might learn a few things.

I was sent unsoliceted emails by brokers, crew agencies, yacht manufactures reps all jumped to my inquiry. Trust me if I want to know more about thier companies I will contact them. Finding them isnt a big effort without a barrage of inquiries to what I may want.

But to have a feeding frenzy in hopes of gaining my trust and contract with them to be honest I rarely go with someone so forward to assume my interest in a subject should be met by what they can offer me.

I first need to do my own research before I spend not only my time but the time of those I am truly interested in finding more about, otherwise it is a waste of everyone's time and only confuses the situation more for me. I am very deliberate in how I research something, someone pushes too hard they are off my consideration list no matter how good thier product may appear to me.

[Five Boat Owner]

Sorry Ladies Choice. It appears they locked me out and I had to set up a new registration under FBO. I did email you my response to AMG. I also posted my response under the Princess Yachts thread.

Anyway, I agree that this is a forum, and I offer only "facts". What I have stated is not partial to Christensen. I am stating the facts about their product versus all the others based on my personal experience and the experience of their other customers. I have no vested interest, except to try and enlighten prospective purchasers in what I have learned after fifteen different yachts. The other thing I'll mention is early Christensen yachts weren't that great. But, what I have seen in this 48M series today is they are the best made hands down... The problem is they just sold their first 50M to a repeat buyer which won't start for eighteen months because of the six 48M they are currently working on. I have decided to buy the second 50M thanks to AMG.

I think I am going to stay away from this sight. It gets my blood pressure up, because, it isn't a true forum. They are worried about their advertisers (like Christensen), not the people that actually buy the boats and make their world go around. They forget it is our money driving this whole industry!

Five Boat Owner signing out...

My message to AMG.

AMG, sorry if I hit a sensitive spot...Picante was Hull # 1 out of now commissioned 27 yachts over 120'. It had no secondary hull bottom like the first two Christensens. Yet the hull was never penetrated. The yacht was pushed up onto a jetty during a storm and as the tide rolled out, the keel was caught in the rocks. The boat eventually rolled onto it's side and hence water breached from the stbd. side main entry. AMG "Moderator" Don't mislead...The rocks did not penetrate the hull!

This is a forum of discussion for truths about honest feedback, each of us have acquired throughout our boat purchasing experiences. I have not mislead anyone...What I have stated is factual. Perhaps AMG, you may be a little biased?

Yes, s_ _ t does happen. However, they foresaw the potential problem and by default, took measures to prevent it from happening in the last 25 of them. All I am saying is that truely custom builders as I have dealt with many, leave you to come up with the guidelines to build, or they use their own. Shoudn't, by default, safeguards and international classing standards be incorporated into every yacht built? Isn't that why Loyds, MCA, Bureau of Veritas, NKK, and ABS are in existence? You are probably right about the one Delta being Loyds classed, however, ABS, MCA and NKK are of the same caliber. Why should classifications be separated out for added costs to the project? By default they should be in the price, standard, no exclusions, like Christensen does. I'm sorry but I don't know of another builder that has built the last 27 yachts to ABS Classifications. Liquidity 1 was the first MCA CERTIFIED yacht in the United States...

I am not biased, I am stating a fact! AMG, perhaps the truth hurts?

[KCook]

You have raised a lot of fair points Ladies Choice. Though I was unaware of that blizzard of E-mail inquiries you got! I'm pretty choosey about who I hand my E-mail address out to.

As for the posts in question, let me say this: First a disclaimer, I'm sure no expert on large yachts . However, I have been active on many message boards for boating for several years. And the experiences you hear about on message boards may not reflect what your experience will be. For it is the nature of message boards that they attract problem cases. When somebody (may even be somebody the guy posting never met) has a problem with his boat, this hits the message board and everybody piles on. You see a great deal more discussion about problem boats than successful boats. Which can easily give the impression most boats are a lot of problems. Which is NOT the case for most owners.

If it is you aim to go digging though all the problem cases out there, that is certainly your prerogative (hey, I snuck my name suggestion in ). Just be aware that a huge task is ahead of you, and it will certainly not reflect most boater's experiences.

As for locking the thread, the Admin here can explain that for himself. Just be aware that some message board sites are bloody free-for-alls and some try to keep to stardards of sorts. But this is EASILY the most informative site I have found for really large yachts. The other sites deal mostly with Sea Ray cruisers and such.

soapbox over,
Kelly Cook

[YachtForums]

Ladies Choice: you didn't see any bashing, because it was deleted.

Five Boat Owner: You were never locked out. You just posted under your original screen name.

The earlier thread was closed because it degenerated. The Private Message system was suggested as a more direct communication method. I had hoped you would choose this.

Certainly a forum should be informative. However, it is not a venue for every remark. As the administrator, I am put in the position of making decisions that are in the best interest of the community, but these decisions may not be popular.

If you will allow me, I’d like to suggest some options…

1. Move on with an informative discussion, void of bashing.
2. Use the Private Message system.
3. Exchange e-mail addresses and speak directly.
4. Seek information elsewhere.

None of the builder’s mentioned (and subsequently deleted) are advertisers on this site. But that doesn’t mean it’s acceptable to make derogatory remarks about them. While Christensen IS an advertiser with us, there was never any doubt about the integrity of their yachts. But it’s not necessary to “put-down” other builders to make this point.

In closing, let me say this… YachtForums was established as PORTAL to direct traffic to the builders that maintain banners on this site. The forums are PURELY secondary. As such, threads or memberships can be deleted... and time will soon forget.

I trust we won’t have to do this.

With all due respect,

Carl Camper, Admin
www.YachtForums.com

[oheka]

I am not shure wether I´m standing alone in this issue, but has anyone else but me questioned the real identity of LC and FBO.

I thouroughly enjoyed reading that thread, but I never even thought it was anything else but literature from the beginning. I mean this forum here ist still Internet, is it not?

Maybe Old Europe is still very different to the United States and it is not considered highly unusual for multi-millionaires to discuss details of the design of their yachts and with that of course intimiate details on their everyday lives on an open internet forum.

If that would be the case, please forgive me for being overly sceptic.