[Marmot]

"However private yachts should form their own convoys ... simply because there is safety in numbers."

Which means that they will watch (which is all they can do) as one of their companions is devoured, or collectively provide a smorgasbord for the pirates to choose from.

A yacht convoy - or any unescorted convoy for that matter - is like a herd of wildebeasts, they will stampede at the sight of danger or watch as one of their fellows is being eaten. They are hardly likely to join together and attack the attackers en masse.

Not to mention that it takes more than 2 or 3 yachts to make a convoy ... now many do you figure are passing the Yemen coast at any given time? And, as soon as the pirates capture a nice white boat for their own use, no one will want to get anywhere near a yacht to make a convoy.

[NYCAP123]

Originally Posted by K1W1

Hi,

NYCAP- This is in direct contradiction of what you wrote in Post No 126.

Either read what you wrote earlier before each additional posting or just stop posting if you can't remember what your views were an hour ago and want to shift your ideas 180 Degs every couple of posts.

I honestly don't know what you're talking about unless you are taking:
"simply because there is safety in numbers. " to mean a guarantee of safety or "I certainly don't expect a frigate to provide continuing protection to a couple of guys in sailboats" to mean that I'm against the idea of the navys providing protection to yachts. If that's the case you're mistaken.

[NYCAP123]

Originally Posted by Marmot

"However private yachts should form their own convoys ... simply because there is safety in numbers."

Which means that they will watch (which is all they can do) as one of their companions is devoured, or provide a smorgasbord for the pirates to choose from.

A yacht convoy - or any unescorted convoy for that matter - is like a herd of wildebeasts, they will stampede at the sight of danger or watch as one of their fellows is being eaten. They are hardly likely to join together and attack the attackers en masse.

Not to mention that it takes more than 2 or 3 yachts to make a convoy ... now many do you figure are passing the Yemen coast at any given time? And, as soon as the pirates capture a nice white boat for their own use, no one will want to get anywhere near a yacht to make a convoy.

Probably true. The only cure is certainly in the hands of nations. I feel that a convoy could be considered more trouble to capture than individual boats. Foolproof? No. Just an idea that may be worth considering.

[Marmot]

"I feel that a convoy could be considered more trouble to capture than individual boats."

They only need to capture one. A convoy of yachts without protection gives them a choice of which one they get.

A handful of large patrol vessels scattered around the region, each receiving intelligence from the amazing amount available through military sources, could eliminate the problem in weeks. No prisoners, no publicity, no refugees, just a few minor oil slicks and some floating debris through which a few disarmed former pirates will sail home to look for other employment.

[Loren Schweizer]

Originally Posted by Marmot

"I feel that a convoy could be considered more trouble to capture than individual boats."

They only need to capture one. A convoy of yachts without protection gives them a choice of which one they get.

A handful of large patrol vessels scattered around the region, each receiving intelligence from the amazing amount available through military sources, could eliminate the problem in weeks. No prisoners, no publicity, no refugees, just a few minor oil slicks and some floating debris through which a few disarmed former pirates will sail home to look for other employment.

+1......

[K1W1]

Originally Posted by NYCAP123

private yachts should form their own convoys or join commercial convoys, even if there is no fire power involved, simply because there is safety in numbers.

NYCAP- This is post 126 made by you.

If you cannot understand what you have written yourself do all readers of this board a favor and STOP posting, spurious and fanciful posts just waste bandwidth of this and every other forum online today.

It's like saying to the pirates who by the way may well read this forum, do you want to fish with one rig or many- you answer this if you understand the question.

[strat57]

Convoys of private yachts? Good Lord.... This isn't drug smugglers looking for the lone "go fast" or "sporty" to hijack and run a few "loads" for profit. Besides, the logistics involved with running convoys for commercial purposes alone is almost impossible.

What with so many ships of differing origin/destination as well as being flagged from different nations..... getting all to agree on one method of protection or corse of action would be quite the diplomatic challenge.

As far as U.S. involvement, consider this fact alone.... 60% of the oil used here in the good ol U.S. is imported from the region. I would say we have a vested interest in seeing to it those shipments make it through the area.... wouldn't you agree?

Personally I have to agree with marmots' assessment.... a few minor oil slicks from pirate vessels that suddenly disappear, but add in a few "mercenary" (read military) strikes against the home ports of these pirates and things may begin to settle down some.

[NYCAP123]

Originally Posted by K1W1

NYCAP- This is post 126 made by you.

If you cannot understand what you have written yourself do all readers of this board a favor and STOP posting, spurious and fanciful posts just waste bandwidth of this and every other forum online today.

It's like saying to the pirates who by the way may well read this forum, do you want to fish with one rig or many- you answer this if you understand the question.

We have a difference of opinion. I feel that a convoy of boats presents a threat to an attacker as they do not know if or which boats may be armed and fire on them while they're attacking another thereby making it a less likely target than the boat sailing alone. You feel a single boat alone is safer. Hopefully neither of us will learn first hand. In the mean time it's lone boats that have been victims. BUT "A handful of large patrol vessels scattered around the region, each receiving intelligence from the amazing amount available through military sources, could eliminate the problem in weeks." (Thank you Marmot) sounds like it could be a cure. Wonder when the operation will begin. In the mean time what do you suggest that boats in that area do to protect themselves?

[Kevin]

This just in:

http://www.military.com/news/article...enefactor.html

Huh?

[Marmot]

"I feel that a convoy of boats presents a threat to an attacker as they do not know if or which boats may be armed and fire on them while they're attacking another ..."

Let me get this straight ... you think someone on a yacht at sea is going to use a rifle and pick off skinny guys climbing a boarding ladder on another yacht while rolling around trying to keep out of AK and RPG range? You aren't seriously suggesting that yacht crews involve themselves in a firefight against men with automatic weapons and shoulder launched anti-tank weapons onboard another yacht at sea ... are you?

"You feel a single boat alone is safer."

I don't feel that any civilian vessel is safe in those waters at the moment.

"In the mean time what do you suggest that boats in that area do to protect themselves?"

Go somewhere else until the people who have the resources and the power to remedy the situation demonstrate the will to do it.

[NYCAP123]

Originally Posted by Marmot

"I feel that a convoy of boats presents a threat to an attacker as they do not know if or which boats may be armed and fire on them while they're attacking another ..."

Let me get this straight ... you think someone on a yacht at sea is going to use a rifle and pick off skinny guys climbing a boarding ladder on another yacht rolling around while keeping just out of AK or RPG range? You aren't seriously suggesting that yacht crews involve themselves in a firefight against men with automatic weapons and shoulder launched anti-tank weapons onboard another yacht at sea ... are you?

"You feel a single boat alone is safer."

I don't feel that any civilian vessel is safe in those waters at the moment.

"In the mean time what do you suggest that boats in that area do to protect themselves?"

Go somewhere else until the people who have the resources and the power to remedy the situation demonstrate the will to do it.

Marmot, I agree with you 100% (especially about going elsewhere), but some are there. Where I fleeing such a situation would I pop off a few shots to stave off possible persuers? You bet. Could one of the larger yachts have a security force? Those are 2 things that need to be considered when choosing whether to take on a single yacht or a convoy. Is it a guarantee of safety? Hell no. But according to Capt. J's post they do want to live a little longer.

[K1W1]

Hi,
If ya petticoat flutters let it flutter

[brian eiland]

Originally Posted by Kevin

This just in:

http://www.military.com/news/article...enefactor.html

Huh?

Originally Posted by from the article

The pirates who captured the Saudi oil tanker Sirius Star have broken off negotiations with the ship's owners, apparently insisting they want to talk with a wealthy Virginia woman with close ties to the US military and intelligence communities.

Michele Lynn Ballarin runs a small Virginia-based company, SelectArmor, that designs and makes body armor and provides executive protection to wealthy individuals. She has a long history of involvement in Somalia, including allegations by a respected publication -- Africa Confidential -- that she was helping plan military operations there in 2006."

"The most urgent requests I've had is they don't want to be offloaded in Somalia because they would be killed," she said, adding that negotiations are under way to find a country willing to take the pirates."

She believes providing a consistent income would help break the cycle even though they have earned about $150 million from piracy.

To help encourage Somalis to patrol their own waters and discourage locals from turning piracy Ballarin has a plan to recruit 500 men and women to serve as a Somali coast guard operating out of Berbera, the country's major port. To fund it, she's talking with international aid agencies and encouraging members of the various governments running Somalia to tax the country's vibrant currency exchanges and some of its companies

What a crock of sh--!! You don't negoiate with these with these low-life pirates. Nor do you ship them off to some other country.

I think this poster got it just about right;

Originally Posted by 19874114

What a load of crap...She belongs to the same little inbred bunch of neocons out of Houston that have been shakeing the country and the treasury down for the past 8 years. If you look behind her house and uncle Dick Chaneys place you will find a bunch of those metal boxes that Saddie packed the hundred dollar bills in....Only they have long been emptid out and the loot stacked away in some faraway off shore account. I have heard stories that some of these characters even store money in vaults in offices of oil platforms out in the ocean....Remeber these are the people that worked withOllie North and his buds to fly coke into Florida,convert it to crack and sell it on the streets of L.A... Now do you believe any of this BS you see planted in the paper as a cover story? It makes good reading if you are a kid in Junior High School that has been grounded and has to sit at home on a Saturday night with no television. Other than that....I ain't belevin a single word of that nonsense!!!!

[Codger]

For some reason I'm humming the score of the "Pirate King" from The Pirates of Penzance. It's a Canadian thing, we can laugh and shake our heads in disbelief at the same time.

"Former Ottawa gas station operator rules home state of Somali pirates"

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/...li-piracy.html


Link to an MP3 of the song referred to for those that are not familiar with it.
http://oldsoaks.mugss.org/shows/2002...ate%20King.mp3

[brian eiland]

Behind the Pirate Lines
Wed 26 Nov 2008


'They attack with grenade launchers which can penetrate armoured steel to 60cm (2ft)'
Piracy, always of great concern to the long range cruising sailor, is now engaging the minds of every commercial seafaring nation in the world,as time and time again they are held to ransom by a straggly bunch of ex-fishermen with RPG7's and missile launchers . Here we take a look behind the dramatic scenes into the world of the Somali pirates:


Early last Tuesday morning Abdinur Haji, a fisherman from Harardere, was out fishing along this coast, as he does most mornings. 'As usual, I got up at 3 a.m. and went to the sea to go fishing. And then I saw this very, very large ship. It was anchored less than three miles from the beach. I have been fishing here for 30 years, but I have never seen such a huge ship.'

The Sirius Star, christened in March, is one of the biggest ships ever built: 330 meters (1,080 feet) long, three times as heavy as an American aircraft carrier when fully loaded, too large for the Suez Canal, and for most ports. It is part of a fleet of 19 supertankers used by Aramco, the Saudi state-owned oil company, to supply the world with the commodity that creates wealth. The Sirius Star was en route from the oil terminals in the Persian Gulf to the United States, and its Polish captain, along with 24 sailors and officers, had planned to take the vessel around the Cape of Good Hope.

The tanker's course was far from the routes where pirates have lurked until now. Some naval experts considered it unlikely that pirates would even dare to target such a colossus - and yet the task is easier than it would seem.

A mother ship - either a traditional dhow or a fishing cutter - must have taken the men far out to sea, the attack boats in tow. This is the way the pirates normally operate. A radar device costs €1,500 ($1,875), and GPS receivers can be had for as little as €100 ($125). Finding prey on the high seas is easy, especially for pirates with time on their hands and a sack of khat. A popular drug among pirates, khat produces a euphoric high followed by mild depression during withdrawal, which is easily counteracted by chewing on more leaves. Time passes quickly for khat chewers.

Perhaps the pirates knew about the Sirius Star's whereabouts in advance. According to experts on the region, the pirates have spies in port cities like Dubai. Their operations may also be coordinated and controlled by powerful backers.

Once a target ship comes into view, the pirates generally move quickly. The attack boats dash off and pull up alongside the target ship. The men throw grappling hooks over the ship's side and use ropes and rope ladders to climb on deck. If the crew resists, with water from high-pressure hoses, for example, or if the captain attempts to out manoeuvre the attackers, the pirates are quick to threaten their victims with their weapon of choice, the RPG-7.

The old Soviet rocket-propelled grenade launcher can hit a ship at 500 meters (1,640 feet). Propelled by a rocket motor, the grenade can penetrate armored steel up to 60 centimeters (two feet) thick. A captain sitting on 300,000 tons of oil would be well advised to surrender quickly.
The pirates forced the crew of the Sirius Star to sail the tanker to Harardere and drop anchor there. When fisherman Haji saw the ship, two small boats were en route to the supertanker, with 18 men on board, followed by a third boat, carrying food and khat.

A short time later Farah Abd Jameh, apparently one of the pirates, contacted the Arab television network Al-Jazeera to announce the gang's ransom demand: 'The ransom will be taken in cash to the oil tanker. We assure the safety of the ship that carries the ransom. We will mechanically count the money and we have machines that can detect fake money.' Another pirate said: 'The Saudis have 10 days to comply, otherwise we will take action that could be disastrous.'

The pirates were originally believed to have demanded a ransom of $25 million (€20 million), which would have been 10 percent of the combined value of the Sirius Star ($150 million) and its cargo ($100 million). On Monday, however, sources from Somalia said that the ransom figure had been reduced to $15 million.

A few years ago, ransom demands were normally on the order of several tens of thousands of dollars per ship. The shipping companies always paid, and prices rose. Today, the average ransom for a ship and its crew ranges from $500,000 (€400,000) to $2 million (€1.6 million).

'London Has A Lot To Do With It':

'The company is always required to bring the money in cash,' says piracy expert Roger Middleton, who has just completed a study on piracy in Somalia for Chatham House, a British think tank. 'After that, it is normally taken to Mombasa or Yemen, where it is turned over to security professionals. They load the millions onto small boats or tugboats, sail out to the hijacked ship, pull up alongside and hand over the sacks of money.'

In many cases, the cash passes through the hands of several intermediaries. 'London has a lot to do with it,' says a security expert with International Institute for Strategic Studies in London. 'A number of law firms have specialized in the business,' says the owner of a Spanish fishing trawler who had to pay a ransom to get his ship back from the pirates. 'Sometimes one wonders whether the pirates are really in Somalia or perhaps in London.'

The negotiations and money transfers usually take several weeks to complete. During this period, the pirates treat their prisoners on board the ships relatively well, says Colin Darch, a British captain.

On Feb. 1, the pirates hijacked his Danish deep-sea tugboat, the Svitzer Korsakov. One of the pirates barked at Darch on the bridge: 'My name is Andrew. I speak English. This is Omar, our boss. Do as he commands.'

They sailed the ship to Eyl, dropping anchor off the coast there. 'The pirates chewed khat all day long,' says Darch. 'We survived on cigarettes, goat meat and camel's milk.' The pirates occasionally chugged back to land in their boats to buy food. They initially demanded $2.5 million (€2 million) in ransom money.

Control Risks, a British security firm, conducted the negotiations. The British drove a hard bargain, and eventually the two sides agreed to a ransom of $678,000 (€542,000) for the ship. 'It took them all night to divide up the money amongst themselves,' says Darch. After 47 days of captivity, he and his five-man crew were finally allowed to hoist anchor.

Twelve hijacked ships are currently at anchor off the white sand beaches of Eyl. One of them is the MV Faina, a Ukrainian merchant vessel carrying a cargo of 33 tanks destined for shady African buyers. The negotiations are currently at about $8 million (€6.4 million), down from the pirates' original demand of $20 million (€16 million), Sugule Ali, a pirate leader on board the MV Faina, told Spiegel.

Tempted by the new wealth, men are flocking to Eyl. Young pirates guard the ships being held hostage, provide reinforcements and prepare for new attacks.

Their bosses drive large SUVs, use their spoils to have mansions built between the town's huts, invest in new restaurants and hotels to accommodate the influx of pirates, and are taking second and third wives. 'All you need is a boat and three guys, and already you're a millionaire, grumbles a former officer in the now long-defunct Somali navy.

When you think about it, it doesn't sound too different from life in the Central Business Districts of many of the Western world's major cities.



by FIP, translated by Christopher Sultan/Sail-World