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Captain's liability insurance..

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by AndyF, Feb 5, 2013.

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  1. AndyF

    AndyF New Member

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    Hey Gang. Just accepted my first full time Captain gig on a small M/Y. I'm having a hard time trying to figure out if I need a personal liability policy.

    The yacht carries $5,000,000 of liability insurance.

    Trying to sort out the "rules of the road" for my new career. Thanks for your input.
  2. ychtcptn

    ychtcptn Senior Member

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    It depends on your employment status. Are you being paid as an employee or as an independent contractor?
    If you are being paid as direct employee of the owner and the boat, you should be covered by the boats insurance. If you are being paid as a non employee, but an independent contractor it might not be a bad idea, but you should at least set up an LLC and be paid directly to that, and not to you personally.
  3. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    I've spent 25 years working as an independent captain fearing that first incident that would bankrupt me and destroy my life. Plus any kind of major incident will end your career on the spot. Adding in the cost of insurance, which probably wouldn't cover whatever I got into anyway, would make the profession financially undoable if it even existed. The first time I even heard of such was on YF about 3 years ago. Quite frankly, if I were getting into this business today, I wouldn't. This is a business you get into because you have to. It's in your blood. There is no kind of security whatsoever. I couldn't count so high as to list the number of broken bones and lacerations I've incurred (spouse better have health insurance). Plus, when you consider how many experienced captains have left the business over the past few years, the competition is fierce.
    Sorry to be Mr. Negative.
  4. captainwjm

    captainwjm Senior member

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    I think ychtcptn has it right. That said, I have an "umbrella" policy that covers excess lilability over that available under my homeowners [check your state for what's available - it varies state to state.]
  5. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    How does your homeowner's policy cover you on a job as an independent contractor away from your home?
  6. captainwjm

    captainwjm Senior member

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    Check your policy; our umbrella has personal liability protection that includes excess liability for professional activities.
  7. AndyF

    AndyF New Member

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    Thanks for the info. I'm an employee of the owner under a LLC set up for the boat so It's looking like I should be fine.
  8. Beau

    Beau Senior Member

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    AndyF

    You may be fine, but you might want to chat with your attorney. One of the benefits of having insurance is that customarily the insurance company has an obligation to defend you in a lawsuit at their cost $$, frivolous or not. Insurance cost are a pain until you need it. Just saying.
  9. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Yes, just make sure you are listed on the policy as an operator or Captain. Also make sure the policy includes "crew coverage" which would cover you for any kind of damage to your body.
  10. ArcanisX

    ArcanisX Senior Member

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    ychtcptn's advice is golden, if you're worried about liabilities, set up an LLC and contract yourself out of it.
    Then again, in bad cases, you can't loose more money then up to bankrupcy, and there ain't no policy I ever heard of to cover loss of reputation and future business, which is where the real risk is.
  11. AndyF

    AndyF New Member

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    Thanks again for all the great advice. Yes, I'm listed on and covered by the yacht's policy. Great to know you all are out there for my next quandary!
  12. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Make sure one of those debts isn't to the IRS. An LLC can be walked through, like the paper curtain it is with a single employee, by a determined creditor and certainly will by the IRS.
  13. Beau

    Beau Senior Member

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    AndyF

    A letter of EMPLOYMENT is never a bad thing. If you are thinking of going the LLC route chat with your lawyer - he will tell you what an LLC can, but most importantly. what it CANNOT do to sheild liability. If you're on the owners documents as a contractor, have him look at the endorement for you..

    BTW, isn't there a trade/professional association you can consult, also? This question seems like it should come up all the time.
  14. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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  15. Beau

    Beau Senior Member

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    NYCAP

    Keep trying! It seems that a professional organization for captains and crew is long overdue - case in point. Maybe Yachtforums would be a good spot to get started, since there are so many professionals here? Don't hit me Carl....
  16. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Built it, brought in over a dozen independent captains and set things up so clients could be served and captains wouldn't have to worry about losing a client if they let someone else handle them, promoted the business, brought the going rate way up by being organized, and did everything on my dime (no dues or fees). After a few years I asked for others to do some of the work. Nobody. Now I'm at a point where I've got a full book and am trying (unsuccessfully) to retire. I'd be glad to lend a hand, but I'm past taking the lead.
  17. saltysenior

    saltysenior Senior Member

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    many years ago i was taken for lunch by an older yacht operator (captain)to a building in Miami called the Marine Association....It appeared all members were private boat operators and crew..........any one have a recollection of this organization ???
  18. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Would that be the Marine Council?
    Home - The Marine Council
  19. ychtcptn

    ychtcptn Senior Member

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    There is an association all ready formed and up and running, it is called the PYA, granted is mostly a European organization that deals mainly with the MCA. I have read recently where they are trying to open up an affiliation here in the US.
    Several years ago a similar society was started here int he US, but really did not go anywhere.
    I think the best bet would be to join with one that is all ready running and adjust it for the US market.
  20. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Do you really think that an association representing foreign crew and maritime interests would have the interests of American crew first and foremost? Seems to me that their goal would be to attack the Jones Act and eliminate American competition thereby driving down our rates.

    American crews need to stop competing against each other on price, join forces to raise their rates throughout the country. There's still some captains in this country willing to work for a hundred and change a day just to steal work. You can make more working at McDonald's with a lot less risk, more benefits and protection.