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Proteksan & Turquoise Superyacht "Yogi" Sinks!

 
 
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Old 02-17-2012, 09:54 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Well, judging by the outcome, stating that effective pump capacity was less than the size of the hole is not speculation...
Anyone in the business will be speculating/theorizing on this one . . . .

The take that keeps on coming back to me - accepting the (supposed) comment by the captain naming the exhaust as the culprit - is this:

First, a boat that size will have a highly qualified crew, and whatever happened was beyond the crew's capability to bring under control in a timely manner. This would indicate an unexpected catastrophic failure.

Underwater exhausts generally have a riser coming up from the hull to which the main exhaust hosed is attached. Said riser is generally a couple feet long, but the coupling between riser and hose is still at or below waterline, if I remember correctly. The riser/hose for that size of yacht might be +/- 14" diameter. OK, hose breaks away from riser, you still have the riser in place to cap off and one engine left to run on. If, however, the riser shears off close to the hullside in a manner in which it can't be quickly capped off then you will have an enormous and effectively uncontrollable quantity of water flooding the engineroom. Things then get really ugly really fast . . .

Speculation, speculation, I know.

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Old 02-17-2012, 10:28 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I've seen many catastrophic failures of this sort, albeit never on a vessel this large. In all cases, there was a chain of events which, in hindsight, seem evident and even simplistic. During the event, however, the chain is never apparent and solutions can quickly disappear.

Does anyone know if the vessel actually sank or if it is in some state of limbo? Is there a specific location stated? Just curious if the vessel is salvageable or if it is a TCL.

Sad to see. Glad that everyone was safely removed from harm.
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Old 02-18-2012, 04:37 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Hmm, most amazing is that there has been six new threads on this story so far..! (All moved to this location)
Mate, got the email this morning about the sinking, went straight to YF (Yeah, your site rocks Carl ), and checked in the "General Yachting Discussions", saw nothing on the topic, so started the new thread. When you did move the thread over, I did notice it came under "Show/Events" I think (glitch). All good now.

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Old 02-18-2012, 04:52 AM   #19 (permalink)
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and checked in the "General Yachting Discussions", saw nothing on the topic, so started the new thread.
Hi Far, since you brought it up, I have a question; Is it only me who have this header where you can check New Posts..?
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Old 02-18-2012, 05:09 AM   #20 (permalink)
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I have it too, never used it till now. "Galileo G" looks great by the way, thanks YachtNews. I'll use it in the future for sure. Cheers

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Old 02-18-2012, 06:24 AM   #21 (permalink)
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8 seems like a very light crew for a yacht of this size. It is also interesting to note that the lights were still lit during the rescue- this would lead me to believe that the flooding was not in the engine room.
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Old 02-18-2012, 07:09 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Hi,

I agree 8 is a light crew for this yacht for anything other than moving it from one port to another.

Vessels such as this which really are built to MCA LY2 Standards should be able to survive one compartment flooding hence the requirement to have water tight doors separating the water tight sections below the weather deck where there are openings. The bulkheads should also be fully welded all the way to the underside of the maindeck which is probably the weatherdeck on this vessel anyway.

Here is an extract from UK MCA MSN 1792.

11.3.1 The watertight bulkheads of the vessel should be so arranged that minor hull damage that results in the free flooding of any one compartment, will cause the vessel to float at a waterline which, at any point, is not less than 75mm below the weather deck, freeboard
deck, or bulkhead deck if not concurrent.


All cable and pipe penetrations should be glanded and there should also be remote controlled bulkhead valves on pipes that pass through such as sewage and grey water lines that could allow water to pass from one compartment to another.

There is also a requirement to have an emergency Fire/Bilge Pump mounted outside the main machinery space.

Most Classification Societies will also require a direct bilge suction connected to the largest capacity pump in the Engine Room. This little gem is one where I have butted heads recently with a LROS Surveyor. The Series 2 CATS come with Plate Coolers (my Avatar is one of these on a 3516) combining the Jacket Water, Charge Air Cooler Coolant and Fuel Coolers which require Sea Water Filters with a screen size of max 2.5mm. This is because the passages in the plate coolers are very small and can be choked easily with things passing through them that are bigger than 2.5mm.

The Direct Bilge suction I was arguing about was connected directly to the Main Engine SW Pump inlet and had no type of strainer which it turns out is not permitted by Class anyway. If this were used in anger when a major flood was on the go it is quite likely that the engine would overheat and stop by it's own protection further adding to your problems.

It is only in the times of absolute need that some of these extra systems do not work well or don't work well at all. Not something that can really be tested on Sea Trials.

There could be any number of reasons why a major breach of the hull which this seems to have been caused the vessel to founder.

Were all Watertight Doors closed, were all bulkhead penetrations well finished off, were the Engine Room Bulkheads welded all the way around properly, was the Emergency Bilge pump functioning properly?

It will be very interesting to find out where the faults lie when all questions are answered. I do not know how quickly the French Marine Accident Investigation System works so it might well be sometime till all the facts are known and the inevitable finger pointing begins.

BTW. In answer to a couple of things said here. I do not believe Rubber Hose would be used in the Exhaust Pipe of a yacht like this, Rubber couplings with flanges yes but not hose as such.

The lights might have been powered by the Emergency Genset which must be air cooled and mounted above the weatherdeck so it could well have still been running or they might be UPS supplied as some builders like to do to help stop them flickering when heavy electrical consumers start up
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Old 02-18-2012, 07:25 AM   #23 (permalink)
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It would indeed appear to be the M/Y YOGI, apparently the biggest yacht so far built to conform to the French classification "RIF - Registre International Français", France's cheaper alternative to the MCA (because the French authorities have basically and simply translated most MCA regulations into French before establishing this new French class of commercial vessel (on the cheap - or did I already mention that)?.

But was the Captain or Master the last person to be evacuated off the vessel...we should be told.
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Old 02-18-2012, 08:38 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Hi,

It will be interesting to know if the French Equivalent of the MCA Regs have taken some shortcuts that might have made the difference between saving and losing the vessel.

It would also be interesting to know the extent of actual compliance with these regs as well as if the construction supervision was up to the standard expected of a major Classification Society.
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Old 02-18-2012, 08:39 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Hi Far, since you brought it up, I have a question; Is it only me who have this header where you can check New Posts..?
Nope, the New Post search function is the only one I ever use.
(Too lazy to scroll every chapter...New Post=Instant Reward )
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Old 02-18-2012, 08:53 AM   #26 (permalink)
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The details on the exhaust design will be interesting to see. On a vessel this size isn't it common that the ER has a full time crew member in place? Possibly the "leak" was not in the ER but further aft along the exhaust water run causing a minor list that overwhelmed a low hull viewing port. Or maybe a submersible opening became fouled yada yada -----------

Last edited by sunchaserv; 02-18-2012 at 08:55 AM.. Reason: spelling
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Old 02-18-2012, 09:03 AM   #27 (permalink)
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First, a boat that size will have a highly qualified crew.
You would be very surprised to find the real truth in that statement. More times than not, yacht owners have there top right hand man who runs there personal businesses and affairs, hire people for there yacht. The right hand man might be good at running the other affairs but knows very little in the ways of the sea fairing world and that assistant may or may not know how to question and hire proper personnel for the vessel.
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Old 02-18-2012, 09:07 AM   #28 (permalink)
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8 seems like a very light crew for a yacht of this size. It is also interesting to note that the lights were still lit during the rescue- this would lead me to believe that the flooding was not in the engine room.
8 is a very very light crew for a yacht this size. There really should be at least 3 crew on shift, minimum, if the boat is underway one at the helm another going around doing interior bilge checks and another to assist the Captain if there is an issue that needs to be checked out. I would imagine it would take several minutes just to transverse from the helm to the engine room and a good 5 minutes to properly check everything in the engine room. If the yacht was undercrewed and traveling 24 hours a day for several days they could've been fatigued and running less than optimal watches.

Don't assume that the crew was knowledgable or that they were paying attention. It's quite possible the engineer was asleep or off shift and the lowliest of deckhands was assigned to do the engine room checks.

If you look at the video with the helicopter, the generator was running (judging the by exhaust water/flow coming out the side), the entire time. It goes to show that no matter what the size of the yacht is, it is not impervious to sinking and that you have to pay attention all of the time.

I'm very surprised that it went down as quickly as it did, and that it went down in the first place. Even if the exhaust blew off the thru-hull, it should've been contained in 1 compartment. Chances are the watertight door to that compartment were left open. I though most all of these really large megayachts are dry-stacked and then have a smaller raw water discharge that comes out at the waterline like a 4" discharge.
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Old 02-18-2012, 09:24 AM   #29 (permalink)
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You would be very surprised to find the real truth in that statement. More times than not, yacht owners have there top right hand man who runs there personal businesses and affairs, hire people for there yacht. The right hand man might be good at running the other affairs but knows very little in the ways of the sea fairing world and that assistant may or may not know how to question and hire proper personnel for the vessel.
I agree.......when I was fairly new in this business I got a job on a 180'ish (they had 2 in this size) Motoryacht which was a Megayacht back then and several smaller 65' ish yachts for various purposes. I wasn't a Captain at the time, but a Mate yet had a lot of experience running boats and a lot of seatime. And I had it in my mind that I wanted to work on Megayachts instead of full time crew on 65'-110' (at that time), until I did it and found out it's not what I want to do.

They had a really weird crew arrangement that someone in the Corporate office thought up. Nobody had a fixed position on the yacht besides the Captain and Engineer, and aside from those people, nobody even worked on the same yacht, they kept shifting you around from position to position and even boat to boat for each guest rotation. One time you're playing deckhand for 3 days, the next 3 days you're a galley assistant, the next 3 days a stewardess, the next 3 days a bartender. So not only did you not remember where anything was on the boat you were on, you also had a different boss every 3 or 4 days, you weren't even doing the same position.

But it gets better. They had all of these so called ranks. Captain, 1st Officer, 2nd Officer, 3rd Officer, 1st Mate, 2nd Mate, and 3rd Mate. It didn't matter if you had a USCG 1600 ton master or no experience at all, you had to start out in the lowliest position of 3rd mate with them at the lowliest pay grade. So, nobody with any experience would apply to their job listings. They did train their employees fairly well, but there was no standardized way to do things. One boss would tell you to use Collinite Metal Wax on the stainless, the next person tells you they don't use that for that and to use Flitz. The problem was, that by this time, even their head Captains of the megayachts had started at the bottom and worked their way up to Captain of a 180'ish. So their experience window was narrowing and narrowing, and since nobody had outside experience to start with, or worked under another Captain, all anyone ever knew is what they learned there. So in a lot of ways, a lot of the crew was severely lacking due to the lack of outside knowledge, and their system made for too many chiefs and not enough indians, and they had almost a 5% turnover every month.

But to put it into perspective, they had someone they promoted to Captain of one of the smaller boats, that held a USCG 500 Ton master, and they couldn't even differentiate how to read the markers and stay in the channel and had to demote that person from running one of the smaller 65'ish foot boats.

And, it was downright dangerous. Right when you knew where everything was on one of the 180'ish megayachts after spending 2 weeks on it in 4 or so different positions. They would switch you over to the other 180'ish megayacht. So you had no idea where any of the safety equipment was like fire extinguishers etc etc.....and were all confused
I worked there for a month and decided it wasn't my cup of tea and moved on.
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Old 02-18-2012, 09:25 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Hi,

This yacht might well be UMS which means there doesn't need to be someone in the ER or ECR they just have to be able to respond to Alarms.
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