[Capt J]

Originally Posted by Pelagic Dreams

Who would take a risk of going into unknown water with a cruise ship loaded with passengers? In my opinion, anyone on duty on the bridge who stood by and did not protest that course change should be held accountable. I know that there is one Master of the Ship, but the entire crew is responsible for its and the passengers safety

The same type of Captain that would be the first to jump in a lifeboat and jump ship before the passangers.

The entire crew is responsible- to the Captain that is in charge.

[FISHTIGUA]

Originally Posted by Capt J

The entire crew is responsible- to the Captain that is in charge.

That, Ladies & Gentlemen, says it all.

[revdcs]

We need to remember that the helmsman (or woman) is probably a junior crew member who has been trained to steer the ship, but has little or no knowledge of navigation. They will also have been aware, and may have actually been at the helm, when the ship took a similar track a few months earlier - as demonstrated in a video posted a few days ago. In addition, it is also possible that the ship was on auto pilot with the captain directing a course to be fed into the AP - so no one actually steering the vessel.

As for crew abandoning before passengers, we have to define crew. The vast majority of 'crew' were hotel or entertainment staff - not seamen. With zero experience of handling a vessel, especially in an emergency, it is easy to see how these 'staff' would be as frightened and panicked as the passengers and would be putting survival first. Also, this happened while dinner was being served and a lot of the 'staff' were wearing smart evening dress which, even if it was uniform, in the dark and under life-jackets, they would not look that different from passengers and thus would be directed by the 'crew' into lifeboats.

The senior officers deserve censure and prosecution where the allegations of abandoning the ship are proved true. But let's not be too hard on the 'staff' element of the crew, if they ended up in lifeboats with passengers, especially if it was a case of women and children first.

[AMG]

From what I have been reading about this accident, the captain was together with some other crew and this girl they all knew since the time she was working on the ship, (celebrating her birthday) at a restaurant in the ship, while the first officer was on the bridge.

Before they approached the island, the captain, a steward (and probably the girl) entered the bridge where it was another four crew running the ship. When you perform turns, you tell the autopilot which turning radius and rudder speed you want and the next course. It seems as the turn was initiated too late so when they were on the new course, they could see the water breaking on the rocks straight ahead. Speed was 15,x knots.

Perhaps it would have been safer to crash straight on, but they tried to avoid it by full rudder to starboard, stopping the engines and putting them in reverse.

This caused them to hit the rock next to the engine room on the port side, and from here they idled and eventually drifted to the position they are now.

(What is true and not of all this remains to be seen of course...)

http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/143588-post67.html

[SHAZAM]

Anyone think this thing can me refloated?

[K1W1]

Originally Posted by SHAZAM!

Anyone think this thing can me refloated?

Hi,

Nothing is impossible.

The potential refloating will depend a lot on what if any damage there is to the hull on the stbd side, the economics of re floating vs cutting up in situ will no doubt be the final decider.

[AMG]

I think they must try to take her away in one piece, maybe not completely refloated, but if she later will be rebuilt or not is just math.

[SHAZAM]

Originally Posted by K1W1

Hi,

...the economics of re floating vs cutting up in situ will no doubt be the final decider.

Understood. What I'm referring to is the feasibility of floating something that's got so many submerged doors and windows that need to be sealed and water tight. Also, will simply using hydraulic pullers to right it create enough damage to make the whole thing a waste of time?

[K1W1]

Originally Posted by SHAZAM!

Understood. What I'm referring to is the feasibility of floating something that's got so many submerged doors and windows that need to be sealed and water tight. Also, will simply using hydraulic pullers to right it create enough damage to make the whole thing a waste of time?

Hi,

I think one of the most difficult things in regard to righting it is the access is quite different on both sides, one is on land and the other is on the water.

If it were as deep under the keel when upright as where it lays now it would probably be able to be pumped out once the holes were patched to where pumps could keep up.

Given that it seems to be laying on a slope it might yet drop into Davy Jones locker to make a new dive site - that might be a boost to the local economy so all will not be lost.

I would say that the most likely scenario is similar to AMG's thoughts, remove it in as few pieces as possible. I doubt by the time it is all over it will be rebuilt and put back into service for anything but an artificial reef.

But.... As they say - Stranger things have happened at sea.

[revdcs]

Originally Posted by K1W1

Hi,

I would say that the most likely scenario is similar to AMG's thoughts, remove it in as few pieces as possible. I doubt by the time it is all over it will be rebuilt and put back into service for anything but an artificial reef.

But.... As they say - Stranger things have happened at sea.

If she survives intact, she may still go to the scrapping beaches of India.

There is an aversion to reusing vessels on which a substantial number of people have lost their lives. There are of course exceptions, such as the 'Herald of Free Enterprise', the ferry which capsized and partially sank off Zeebrugge in 1987. She is now working as a Ro-Ro Ferry somewhere in India or further East. However, I'm not sure there are many passengers who would want to book a cruise on the Concordia if she is put back into service!

[Capt J]

Originally Posted by SHAZAM!

Understood. What I'm referring to is the feasibility of floating something that's got so many submerged doors and windows that need to be sealed and water tight. Also, will simply using hydraulic pullers to right it create enough damage to make the whole thing a waste of time?

I think it can be refloated, it's in shallow water and quite easy to access via divers and such. Many of the plates could be temporarily patched and welded right where it sits. I know one thing, they're not going to leave it there. I think that if pulled over correctly and distributing the pulling forces evenly wouldn't do any damage that would create more holes in the bottom. Whether or not it's financial feasible or worth it is another story altogether.

[revdcs]

If they do try to remove her intact, I hope there will good commentary on the process. Despite her being in shallow water, as AMG and K1W1 both say, this is going to be quite a challenge, especially with her lying at the top of a slope.

I suspect that the Italian Government will also have a say in this - bearing in mind the impact on tourism. They may well insist that the insurers and salvers remove her in one piece if at all possible.

[chesapeake46]

I heard today that the owners we're going to give the passengers their money back and offer them a 30% discount on all future cruises.

Magnanimous......

[YachtForums]

Gents,

Several posts have been removed due to unsubstantiated nonsense. Apologies to any senior members whose posts were removed in conjunction.

[carelm]

From what I gather the operation to pump out the fuel and other liquids will be starting today. Due to the cold conditions, the fuel has to be heated up first before being pumped out. There doesn't seem to be much danger of the ship moving off its current position into deeper waters.