[NYCAP123]

I always impress on my students the need to practice, practice, practice. I tell them, if nothing else, when you pull out of a slip do a 360 then go on your way. I show them what their boat will do and explain that I'm not smart; I'm not tallented; I just do it alot. And yet.....

[NoRudder]

This computerfobia has to stop, please and I find this thread disturbing.
There is not one internal combustion diesel engine available from any manufacturer I know of today that can meet emission standards for 2011 without the help of computer controlled injection (at 300 HP plus anyway). That's the way it is going forward, period, in my opinion.
I sure hope you do not think of hydraulic steering as reliable. I have lost steering many more times with that system than I have lost any electronic version, but it can and will happen, no doubt.

We need to help others enter and enjoy boating. Every boater needs to develop their skills to become both knowledgable and safe boaters. Encourage development of these skills.

Thrusters can involve many problematic issues and maintenance concerns, plus the weight of the thruster and batteries or hydraulic gear, tank and fluids. POD drives may have potential issues as well and if one has experience to talk about it, fine.
Think a bit about what you say to less experienced boaters that enter the forums. Try to embrace them and not chase them away please. Understand the changes in this industry, even though you may not agree entirely.
I do not mean to offend anyone, but I want this industry back on its feet. Thanks for understanding.

[NYCAP123]

What I like best about the new technologies is the fuel savings and enhanced maneuvering abilities. But it's a two-edged sword. Those same features attract people to get much larger boats than they're qualified to handle and encourages them to not learn the basics. So when things go wrong or manual they're not equiped to handle it. If that scares a 1st time boater out of buying a 60 footer that's a good thing. I'm not a salesman.

[Pascal]

norudder... good point to some extent. nothing is 100% reliable but most of the time hydraulic steering and cable controls will give you warnings before failure.

a control cable doens't snap without warning (getting stiff, binding, etc...), even when something gets loose in the control head (even though most critical linkage have safety pins/wire) you can usually feel it coming.

Same with hydraulics. sure a hose can burst but most of the time problems come from slow leaks. some folks dont' check their reservoir levels and air pressure during their preflight... and even when a slow leak gets to critical level, your wheel will start feeling different giving you time to center the rudders and come home.

I agree that pods are probably preferable to thrusters though.

As nycap suggested, or rather stated in a very new yorkish way , is that docking and close quarter handling is only part of running a boat, especially a larger one. Making it that easy to dock a 60 footer does help the new boat owner when it comes to anchoring or navigating. Ever been dragged on by some clueless guy in a failry large boat because he couldn't set his anchor on a calm day? I have...

so while it's nice to use those systems to get more people on board larger boats, it doesn't mean they are ready to safely operate them.

[NYCAP123]

As well as the warnings you get from hydrolic & mechanical systems Pascal points out, there is also the fact that you can usually fix or at least jimmy rig them. When a "brain" goes you're done. On one IPS boat I work with the owner got a warning ""Caution! Check Steering Wheel!" ". What the heck can you do with that besides worry.

[Kapn]

I've always thought along the same lines that good skill and experience should prevail. However, looking back, I'm sure that the masters of sailing ships thought the new technology of steam ships and coastal aids to navigation such as lighthouses was allowing inexperienced mariners to achieve the same end results as their training. Then the Loran took over for a Sextant and now we trust our navigation to a bunch of satellites in orbit. Fifty years from now there will be a grizzly old guy on the dock talking about how those old computer controlled diesel engines are more reliable than the hyper plasma drives or whatever else has come along.

Kapn

[AMG]

Originally Posted by NYCAP123

On one IPS boat I work with the owner got a warning ""Caution! Check Steering Wheel!" ". What the heck can you do with that besides worry.

You should learn how to run and steer the IPS drives in emergency mode...

[NYCAP123]

Originally Posted by AMG

You should learn how to run and steer the IPS drives in emergency mode...

I've been running IPS for several years now and have had numerous discussions with our mechanic about this warning (which he believes is a bad sensor, but has to put the VDO on to confirm) and this is the first I've heard of "emergency mode". Educate me PLEASE. Thank you.

[AMG]

Originally Posted by NYCAP123

Educate me PLEASE. Thank you.

Sorry, but I wasn´t listening in detail when Volvo Penta was describing it, but there is a procedure to follow. (I am not talking about false alarms, but when something goes down.)

[NYCAP123]

Originally Posted by Kapn

I've always thought along the same lines that good skill and experience should prevail. However, looking back, I'm sure that the masters of sailing ships thought the new technology of steam ships and coastal aids to navigation such as lighthouses was allowing inexperienced mariners to achieve the same end results as their training. Then the Loran took over for a Sextant and now we trust our navigation to a bunch of satellites in orbit. Fifty years from now there will be a grizzly old guy on the dock talking about how those old computer controlled diesel engines are more reliable than the hyper plasma drives or whatever else has come along.

Kapn

Never heard of anyone complaining about the advent of nav aides except for one around Kingston I believe it was (that was built by salvers to draw ships onto the reef), but those steam engines did have a habit of blowing up or burning. Also, in those days people didn't jump from land into the new technology. They added it to their base of knowledge and skill.

[NYCAP123]

Originally Posted by AMG

Sorry, but I wasn´t listening in detail when Volvo Penta was describing it, but there is a procedure to follow. (I am not talking about false alarms, but when something goes down.)

Sounds like we all have some investigating to do. That's something critical that should be taught during orientation. I didn't even know it existed unless they were just talking about steering with the tabs and gears.

[CaptEvan]

In IPS, if a steering unit fails, you can set the drive straight by hand with a little aluminum wheel and a brake release button included in an emergency kit. Typically, both SUS units (steering) would not fail, but it is possible. In that case, its gears and throttles to get home.

Ed, the tool you are referring to is a Vodia, more like a hand held computer for reading service codes and programming components.

[NYCAP123]

Originally Posted by CaptEvan

In IPS, if a steering unit fails, you can set the drive straight by hand with a little aluminum wheel and a brake release button included in an emergency kit. Typically, both SUS units (steering) would not fail, but it is possible. In that case, its gears and throttles to get home.

Ed, the tool you are referring to is a Vodia, more like a hand held computer for reading service codes and programming components.

Yep, that's it. x-thousand $. Never heard of that emergency kit. Was told about the adjustment the position and just told "never touch it. Leave it to the tech" which is of little help . I was left with the impression it was in case a drive gets pushed out of line not if it failed. I'll have to check with my old boss to see if it was included. Thanks for the info.

[NYCAP123]

Originally Posted by AMG

You should learn how to run and steer the IPS drives in emergency mode...

Just got a good response from Fish who's down with the flu. (Let's all wish him well with that). Also from my own tech. Simply put, Emergency mode indicates a problem (13 sensors). Operate normally if it works until you can get with a tech to put the VODIA on it. If it doesn't work go to gears and tabs. If it is locked at angles align as best you can with as Capt.Evan indicated. and go to gears & tabs. (I'm still waiting to hear from the boss if the "little aluminum wheel and a brake release button" were given him). If not it soon will be. Does anyone know if pod angle can be determined from up top or do you need to put someone under to eyeball it?

[CaptEvan]

There is a resolver or potentiometer on the SUS (steering) unit that tells the computer where the drive is, and that angle is also available on the display at the helm. If that resolver goes bad, you will get a steering fault code and will not know where the drive is.

The trick with the little manual wheel is to crank it all the way to one side, then count the number of full turns it takes to get it to its opposite limit, and finally turn it back half of that number and the drive will be facing straight forward. 36 full turns from one limit is what I recall will get the drive centered, but it has been awhile since I had to do it.