Click for McKinna
Click for McKinna
Click for Horizon
Click for Pacific Mariner
Click for Nordlund
Click for JetForums
Go Back   YachtForums.Com > GENERAL YACHTING DISCUSSION > General Yachting Discussion > Gulf of Mexico oil spill

Login to YachtForums
Username
Password

Reply

Gulf of Mexico oil spill

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 06-13-2010, 02:14 PM   #61 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Vancouver BC and Florida
Posts: 846
Cool oil spill

I notice a lack of the word "accident " here, seems there is a great need to punish the wealthy regardless of circumstance, yet with all some will take whatever wealth is handed out with grateful hands and scream the loudest when it is felt the "handouts" were too low. Henceforth the opportunity to have "revenge" prior to the trial. Take 'em out and hengem high is the cry and if that don't work, change the law so it suits current thinking after all, what did the fathers of America know about today, I see there is a book on Amazon that actually reflects those thoughts and has a prefix with the caution that the words and wisdom of yesteryears do not neccessarily have validity today, ah, my friends, make change with great caution, going back is much more difficult than going forward.
dennismc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2010, 03:02 PM   #62 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
NYCAP123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 7,756
Quote:
Originally Posted by dennismc
I notice a lack of the word "accident " here, seems there is a great need to punish the wealthy regardless of circumstance, yet with all some will take whatever wealth is handed out with grateful hands and scream the loudest when it is felt the "handouts" were too low. Henceforth the opportunity to have "revenge" prior to the trial. Take 'em out and hengem high is the cry and if that don't work, change the law so it suits current thinking after all, what did the fathers of America know about today, I see there is a book on Amazon that actually reflects those thoughts and has a prefix with the caution that the words and wisdom of yesteryears do not neccessarily have validity today, ah, my friends, make change with great caution, going back is much more difficult than going forward.
This may have something to do with the resistance to using the word "accident" (Thank you Brian for posting the link).
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6490348n

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6490378n
As for those boats making "huge amounts of money" for laying boom and the people taking "handouts", that's wonderful, but what about the motels, gift shops, restaurants, etc., etc. and all the supporting industries who will lose those tourist dollars that they desperately need not to mention the taxes that the states and municipalities will lose. How about the oyster processors who are now permanently out of business after surviving more than 100 years until this. What about their employees. Compensation is not a handout and it is not revenge. You break it; you pay for it. Or should they get special treatment and forgiveness because they're "wealthy". If you pump fuel overboard do you get fined? So why should BP not be held responsible. That has nothing to do with "revenge". As for waiting for trial to hold their feet to the fire, I think it would be rather irresponsible of our country to wait 20 plus years before demanding that BP clean up its mess. By then the French Riviera may find their beaches well coated and their tourist dollars drying up.
NYCAP123 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2010, 03:26 PM   #63 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Vancouver BC and Florida
Posts: 846
oil spill

So, when BP says they will make it good...you do not believe them . That is a very poor attitude indeed. I see the accident in Arkansas with multiple deaths has not yet been blamed on the Fed. Ohhhhhhhh, that's an accident.
dennismc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2010, 03:26 PM   #64 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
K1W1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: My Office
Posts: 6,288
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCAP123
the French Riviera may find their beaches well coated
Hi,

And what makes you think some of them aren't now anyway?
K1W1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2010, 03:58 PM   #65 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
NYCAP123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 7,756
Quote:
Originally Posted by dennismc
So, when BP says they will make it good...you do not believe them . That is a very poor attitude indeed. I see the accident in Arkansas with multiple deaths has not yet been blamed on the Fed. Ohhhhhhhh, that's an accident.
BP has a consistant record of underestimating the amount of oil being released and downplaying the scope of the disaster, plus doing their absolute best to shift the blame. Yep, I don't trust them. As for the flash flood in Arkansas that raised creek levels 3' per hour to a 22' depth, that wasn't an accident. That was a local disaster created by an act of nature. I'm afraid that the one responsible is a little beyond our ability to exercise control over. However, the government representatives as well as volunteers were out looking for survivors the first day. Maybe you'd prefer if they litigated first.
NYCAP123 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2010, 04:30 PM   #66 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
brian eiland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Washington DC, Annapolis MD, Thailand
Posts: 2,425
Quote:
Originally Posted by dennismc
If all accidents result in boycotts and threats to prevent one from using the rights and laws currently in effect to defend themselves , then you have no basis for a safe and workable society. Dictatorships arise form such ashes.
Good point!
brian eiland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2010, 04:31 PM   #67 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Vancouver BC and Florida
Posts: 846
Oil spill

I was under the impression that any structure or living type areas used or built close to rivers were always suspect for safety, I think somewhere there was even a much higher power than the potus who warned us about that, I was also under the impression that the park was a Federal project.
Also, don't forget that BP is actually AMOCO, renamed, interesting that the media seems to ignore the connection to American Oil and point the finger at the UK.
dennismc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2010, 05:45 PM   #68 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
NYCAP123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 7,756
Quote:
Originally Posted by dennismc
I was under the impression that any structure or living type areas used or built close to rivers were always suspect for safety, I think somewhere there was even a much higher power than the potus who warned us about that, I was also under the impression that the park was a Federal project.
Also, don't forget that BP is actually AMOCO, renamed, interesting that the media seems to ignore the connection to American Oil and point the finger at the UK.
I've seen a few fingers pointing at or at least trying to draw the UK into this, but those fingers belong oddly enough to proponents of BP. Seems they understand that public opinion is much more favorable towards our friends across the pond than a profiteering multi-national corporation who, along with others of their ilk, have been raking the world's populace over the coals for years. Personally, I wouldn't give a darn if the company were owned by my aunt Sally. I want the problem dealt with and the entity responsible held accountable. Talk of boycotts have been pushed by a few crackpots. I suspect they're related to the old 'freedom fries' crowd. I hope BP sells lots of fuel. That's the only way they'll be able to pay for this catastrophe and not ruin their innocent investors.
NYCAP123 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2010, 09:25 PM   #69 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Vancouver BC and Florida
Posts: 846
oil spill

Last week there were over four hundred thousand Americans boycotting BP stations. Put them out of biz. zero recovery, nowadays the majority of Corps realize that they cannot escape responsibility for accidents or errors, however, it is corporate responsibility to minimize exposure to fiscal disaster, after all, they represent many individuals life savings and thousands of employees mortgage payments to keep them above water...extrapolate from there....
dennismc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2010, 09:32 PM   #70 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Vancouver BC and Florida
Posts: 846
oil spill

A man was driving down the road and ran out of gas. Just at that moment, a bee flew in his window.


The bee said, 'What seems to be the problem?'


'I'm out of gas,' the man replied.


The bee told the man to wait right there and flew away. Minutes later, the man watched as an entire swarm of bees flew to his car and into his gas tank. After a few minutes, the bees flew out.

'Try it now,' said one bee.


The man turned the ignition key and the car started right up. 'Wow!' the man exclaimed, 'what did you put in my gas tank'?



The bee answered

Wait for it.wait for it..


You're just gonna love this


I see you smiling.


BP
dennismc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2010, 10:03 PM   #71 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
NYCAP123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 7,756
Quote:
Originally Posted by dennismc
Last week there were over four hundred thousand Americans boycotting BP stations. Put them out of biz. zero recovery, nowadays the majority of Corps realize that they cannot escape responsibility for accidents or errors, however, it is corporate responsibility to minimize exposure to fiscal disaster, after all, they represent many individuals life savings and thousands of employees mortgage payments to keep them above water...extrapolate from there....
I don't believe that any thinking person wants BP out of business for exactly the reasons you cite. Personally, I think that any boycott at this time is premature, however it is a very good tool to use as a warning to an unresponsive company.
As for your joke, don't quite your day job, but very cute. Hope you don't mind if I pass it along to friends.
NYCAP123 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2010, 11:03 PM   #72 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Seafarer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Hudson River
Posts: 782
Sometimes the short term costs of wise decisions, and savings from poor decisions, seem like a mere drop in the bucket when weighed against the cost of the consequences of substituting folly for wisdom. Unfortunately those some times are too often the times viewed in hindsight.

The few hundred thousand, or even few million, the extra precautions so scrupulously avoided may have cost, there will be far more spent in cleaning this mess up over the years it will take to restore the area, never mind the ultimate cost in goodwill and the inevitable re-restriction of offshore drilling. How much will that cost the entire industry, all for a few dollars in the grand scheme of things?

There are ways to do things right and ways to do things wrong. When you're making a good profit, it always pays to do things right.

As a parting thought, even I, as an ardently pro-business individual, can see the irony in this...
Attached Images
Seafarer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2010, 12:15 PM   #73 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: French Riviera...
Posts: 302
$

Like my respected peers here on YachtForums.com, K1W1, NYCAP123, dennismc etc. are all senior members here, just as airship is/was...labelled as a senior member. Yet "senior members" amongst us all, has not stopped other "senior members" from simply ridiculing the contents of my posts without producing any real arguments against - unless mere rhetoric has become a valid argument?!

No, and I won't continue to let the usual protagonists (so help me, your God...), get away easily with their too often incoherent mumblings. Our armed-forces/ personnel suffer grevious injuries and deaths in Iraq and Afghanitan today, propulsed by simlilarly convuluted arguments. And everytime the USA launches a missile from a Predator UAV, with the usual effects, the numbers of of our terrorist enemies, willing to sacrifice their lives only grows exponentially.

I'm not sure exactly which of my previous posts to this thread resulted in replies of this nature:
Quote:
Don't like the US much, eh? As for good old Dick Cheny & Haliburton do what you will. They wouldn't be missed by the average US citizen. We will however miss the animals & fish. BP is not a US corp. The "accident" was not intentional, but it was recklessly caused in the quest for profit. As for "all gulf fishermen [/i](and all the others who hitherto earned a more or less generous living)", obviously you've never worked the waters. It's long, hard work for very little money. As for the UK pensions, the little guy is getting hit from every side. My retirement income went down the tubes many months ago. So now it's BP's investors. Welcome to the club. I doubt we'll be seeing the British Navy invading our shores any time soon unless it so we can show them our hospitality during fleet week.
Quote:
I think "airship" is too full of what makes airships what they are. The French and now,and, the UK are Countries in decline, having had their hayday as exploiters of people and places and of course the good ole US of A rescued both or they all be speaking German today. However, I digress, I think Ayan Rand said it best when interviewed on US TV, she was asked how she would "control" oil Co's and others who would pollute etc, her reply was " an educated and caring consumer would bring them in to line through the cash register really quick", Governments just end up restricting business and punishing it via.i taxes which do not go back to the consumer and only result in the consumer paying more.

So, here is question, was the spill and accident and forgiveness appropriate provided genuine efforts made to minimize damage etc ? failing good actions by BP should the consumer or the Government punish them?
Quote:
You've already amply shown your bias, prejudice and sabre rattling Airship as well as your anti-American sentiment. Unfortunately for you, the rest of the world realized a long time ago that we are friends who happened to have a lousy leader for a while. You're living in the past and your words are not worth consideration.
*
Quote:
When someone talks about invading my country because we're holding a company liable for the worst ecological disaster in U.S. history they are labeled 'crackpot' and ignored because what they are suggesting is irrational and ridiculous and not worthy of consideration.
*

Quote:
You assume incorrectly. It is your vile generalizations and accusatory attitude I find most unsavory and ill-expressed.
Quote:
This might explain things a bit, he might have switched to Pastis which force all those who consume it to become seriously patriotic till the effects wear off which if a lot is consumed might be years
The worst environmental threat to the SE USA of recent times is not a result of the actions of BP Plc.

A very long time ago, well before Obama, GWB etc., the USA instigated a policy of foreign diplomacy etc. and which, apart from a few minor changes, is always applied today, pretty much regardless of the people, the country or their religiouis beliefs.

That's why hardly anyone claims with joy that NATO forces (read US) in Afghanistan or Pakistan "may have eliminated an Al-Qaeda leader" etc. etc. in a surprise attack. Whilst not quite acknowedging that the salme attack resulted in the deaths of perhaps 10-50 other "innocents", and without definite confirmation that the "original target" was "'hit"...?!

Is that the way "the law" is applied in the USA today - I don't believe so? Whatever, we in Europe could never accept a foreign nation (however benign - and with all the gratitude that many European countries owe to the USA re. WWI and WWII ), it's not acceptable, nor desirable that such "freedom of military action" is authorised and/or exercised without due regard. There will be severe repercussions, for all of us. Hopefully merely from the governments which in time, will conclude that these actions were wholly or mainly counter-productive. Unless of course, the Russians left behind a few "nucs" during their hasty retreat encouraged by the combined US / Taleban team...?!

I'm pretty sure that a few contributors here might well have considerd working with a Taleban-lead government in Afghanistan (albeit one which expunged all contacts with Al-Qaeda...?! So far as I"m aware, when the Taleban ruled Afghanistan, there was much less drug-trafficking than nowadays (which should be important to the USA, where merely $40 billions in taxable revenues remain unclaimed...?!

To be entirely frank, my main concern, is just who the USA is going to go after nex>...?!

IMHO, everyone situated outside of the USA should be posting comments like "we'll stand by you all" currently. The rude reality of the yachting profession means that the usual (International) yachting agencies and intermediaries consider posts to this forum as a means and devote efforts to disrupt (all and any of these initiatives). And after the commisions come in, noone is a complete stranger as to what really goes on...?!

PS. Feck the French, the Belgians, the Germans, and MS Windows. Feck you all OK?!
airship is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2010, 12:53 PM   #74 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
NYCAP123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 7,756
Quote:
Originally Posted by airship
Like my respected peers here on YachtForums.com, K1W1, NYCAP123, dennismc etc. are all senior members here, just as airship is/was...labelled as a senior member. Yet "senior members" amongst us all, has not stopped other "senior members" from simply ridiculing the contents of my posts without producing any real arguments against - unless mere rhetoric has become a valid argument?!

No, and I won't continue to let the usual protagonists (so help me, your God...), get away easily with their too often incoherent mumblings. Our armed-forces/ personnel suffer grevious injuries and deaths in Iraq and Afghanitan today, propulsed by simlilarly convuluted arguments. And everytime the USA launches a missile from a Predator UAV, with the usual effects, the numbers of of our terrorist enemies, willing to sacrifice their lives only grows exponentially.

I'm not sure exactly which of my previous posts to this thread resulted in replies of this nature:





**





The worst environmental threat to the SE USA of recent times is not a result of the actions of BP Plc.

A very long time ago, well before Obama, GWB etc., the USA instigated a policy of foreign diplomacy etc. and which, apart from a few minor changes, is always applied today, pretty much regardless of the people, the country or their religiouis beliefs.

That's why hardly anyone claims with joy that NATO forces (read US) in Afghanistan or Pakistan "may have eliminated an Al-Qaeda leader" etc. etc. in a surprise attack. Whilst not quite acknowedging that the salme attack resulted in the deaths of perhaps 10-50 other "innocents", and without definite confirmation that the "original target" was "'hit"...?!

Is that the way "the law" is applied in the USA today - I don't believe so? Whatever, we in Europe could never accept a foreign nation (however benign - and with all the gratitude that many European countries owe to the USA re. WWI and WWII ), it's not acceptable, nor desirable that such "freedom of military action" is authorised and/or exercised without due regard. There will be severe repercussions, for all of us. Hopefully merely from the governments which in time, will conclude that these actions were wholly or mainly counter-productive. Unless of course, the Russians left behind a few "nucs" during their hasty retreat encouraged by the combined US / Taleban team...?!

I'm pretty sure that a few contributors here might well have considerd working with a Taleban-lead government in Afghanistan (albeit one which expunged all contacts with Al-Qaeda...?! So far as I"m aware, when the Taleban ruled Afghanistan, there was much less drug-trafficking than nowadays (which should be important to the USA, where merely $40 billions in taxable revenues remain unclaimed...?!

To be entirely frank, my main concern, is just who the USA is going to go after nex>...?!

IMHO, everyone situated outside of the USA should be posting comments like "we'll stand by you all" currently. The rude reality of the yachting profession means that the usual (International) yachting agencies and intermediaries consider posts to this forum as a means and devote efforts to disrupt (all and any of these initiatives). And after the commisions come in, noone is a complete stranger as to what really goes on...?!

PS. Feck the French, the Belgians, the Germans, and MS Windows. Feck you all OK?!
Airship, you may have missed the banner atop this page so let be remind you that this is YACHT Forums. Rambling like that belongs in a letter to your political representative. This thread is about an oil spill caused by the reckless actions of BP employees and executives (and possibly their sub-contractors) and you suggest that the UK should invade the U.S. militarily and now you've moved the thread to the war in Afghanistan. Yours is a very disturbing post.
NYCAP123 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2010, 01:04 PM   #75 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Iqaluit, Nunavit, Canada
Posts: 166
Greetings,
Getting back to the topic at hand and NOT pointing fingers at anyone, I have been reading about other concerns that I hadn't thought about.
Levels of H2S were found to be upwards of 1,192 ppb (Safe limit <5-10 ppb) in some areas of the Gulf. Levels of benzene, a known carcinogen, were found to be 3X higher than what OSHA deems safe. Add to this the tens of thousands of gallons of dispersant atomised into the air by arial drops and you've got quite a toxic soup to be breathing. Further, add in the products of combustion.This is going to, if it hasn't already, be carried westward across FL by prevailing winds affecting not only clean up crews but land based folks as well.
Another thing to consider is land values. I'll bet you waterfront will be going cheap not just around FL, but up the whole east coast as well I supect for the next few years or so and seafood prices will be going in the other direction.
If the relief well is not successful, what other option is there? I've read everything from high explosives to nukes! Due to the very high pressures the oil is being expelled at, there will be very few options left.
Hurricane season has already started, bringing yet another set of variables into the equation.
This stuff is going to get into the Gulf Stream and spread through all of the Atlantic and eventually to European shores as well.
Thanks for reading these idle thoughts.
Peter.
Savasa is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are EST. The time now is 08:42 AM.

Click for Bering
Click for Westport
Click for Dockwise
Click for Nordhavn
Click for Ferretti
Click for Ocean Alexander


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2