[VikHatBer]

Originally Posted by K1W1

Hi,

All those brands are similar from what I see so maybe all their factories should relocate.

Who cares about jobs anyways...?

Name one Oriental motoryacht builder that builds with as much quality as Burger... (See: resale value)

Now, name one Oriental boat builder that has a SF in production that is as fast, sturdy, and popular as Viking.

You must think quality plays no part in boat building...

[K1W1]

Hi,

Luxury Boat Building in Asia is much te same as Cars were years ago, they are on a learning curve that is going to result in many mass production units entering established markets and the local players will either have to change or disappear- Look at you Car Industry.

I am not sure that the Q word can really be used with the B or V Brand unless pre fixed with the word Poor

[VikHatBer]

Originally Posted by K1W1

Hi,

Luxury Boat Building in Asia is much te same as Cars were years ago, they are on a learning curve that is going to result in many mass production units entering established markets and the local players will either have to change or disappear- Look at you Car Industry.

I am not sure that the Q word can really be used with the B or V Brand unless pre fixed with the word Poor

Local players will have to go cheaper or disappear is what your saying. My earlier point was that Asian boats are nowhere near the current quality of top domestic builders, and you proved my point for me.

There musn't have been a vibrant market for heavy hulled Sportfish production in Australia, as the light hulled Riviera couldn't even count on the strength of its own domestic market. It seems Americans obviously didn't like the lightweight boats that much either.

Here in the US, the people who buy new Hargrave, Broward, and Burger yachts wouldn't care if the Chinese came out with something similar for a couple mil cheaper. They will always pay the couple mil extra for a custom, overbuilt boat, rather than the faux luxury that Oriental manufacturers advertise because they will always be able to afford it. Bottom line, you will never get the same quality out of Asia as you do right now in our premium yards.

[YachtForums]

Originally Posted by VikHatBer

Here in the US, the people who buy new Hargrave, Broward, and Burger yachts wouldn't care if the Chinese came out with something similar for a couple mil cheaper. They will always pay the couple mil extra for a custom, overbuilt boat, rather than the faux luxury that Oriental manufacturers advertise because they will always be able to afford it.

This exert is so loaded with misinformation that I must respond...

1. Hargrave's are built in Kaohsiung, Taiwan.

2. Buyers will NOT pay more for a Broward. That theory was put to the test and it failed.

Originally Posted by VikHatBer

Bottom line, you will never get the same quality out of Asia as you do right now in our premium yards.

Really? Have you ever been onboard a Horizon?

[K1W1]

Originally Posted by VikHatBer

.....you will never get the same quality out of Asia as you do right now in our premium yards.

That was surely said by those in the Automotive and Consumer Electronics Industry in the USA a few years ago as well.

I do not understand how a US Domestic operation can ever hope to compete labour and other cost wise with an operation where the wages are counted in cents per hour not dollars and the cost of environmental/retirement/pensions/health care does not need to be considered as there isn't any.

[CODOG]

Asian final product it is, but not necessarily due to Asian design, engineering and project management. A lot of Asian product is a summation of some fierce worldwide talent. Asian product at its best is world class, and getting better every year. Even after you take universal materials and equipment, established Euro / US designers, established Euro / US naval architects, established Euro / US marine engineers and project management etc out of the Asian product equation, you are still left with a highly skilled and lowly paid workforce, within an ever improving infrastructure. Their yacht building industry is only a track record and established re-sale reputation away from being a major global player. Some would say it already is, albeit fronted by some surprising 'names'.

[OutMyWindow]

Carl, forget the PNW, at this rate YF may need a satellite office in Taiwan.

[VikHatBer]

Originally Posted by YachtForums

This exert is so loaded with misinformation that I must respond...

2. Buyers will NOT pay more for a Broward. That theory was put to the test and it failed.

Really? Have you ever been onboard a Horizon?

Burger, for example, does not expand its production because it enjoys a healthy, multi-year backlog of orders. This allows it to focus on quality and the ability to charge clients premium. Apparently this premium does not cut down on its number of customers. It is hard to spot a new Burger less than 120' nowadays.

I don't care about what the latest fad with Horizon may be, or what the nouveau riche bandwagon is nowadays. Old money has always been attracted to boats like Burger, Broward, Hatteras, Crescent/Queenship etc. But what do I know? I'm just a boater who sees things...

I am what you might call a 'serious ameteur' in maritime history. One of the most annoying things I see in the boating industry is the never ending pursuit of bandwagons by boatmakers. They do this to make a quick buck. Things like 'bubble bows', low freeboards, large hull windows, lack of a decent rub rail, and 'underbuilding' drive me crazy.

[K1W1]

Hi,

Burger should have a few letters added to their name to make it Burglar which if I wasn't bound by a confidentiality agreement I would be happy to expand upon.

[YachtForums]

Originally Posted by VikHatBer

Burger, for example, does not expand its production because it enjoys a healthy, multi-year backlog of orders.

Actually, Burger tried to expand production under the David Ross regime. This was the purpose of the new infrastructure he built during the run-up years, only to face the same challenges of the past... cash.

Originally Posted by VikHatBer

Old money has always been attracted to boats like Burger, Broward, Hatteras, Crescent/Queenship etc.

Actually, it's NEW money that's been funding Burger, especially as the dollar became weaker. Or should I say... the ruble became stronger. And while old money may be steeped in tradition, none of them were plunking down the kid's inheritance on a repeat Broward. That was a gross miscalculation.

Originally Posted by VikHatBer

I am what you might call a 'serious ameteur' in maritime history. One of the most annoying things I see in the boating industry is the never ending pursuit of bandwagons by boatmakers. They do this to make a quick buck. Things like 'bubble bows', low freeboards, large hull windows, lack of a decent rub rail, and 'underbuilding' drive me crazy.

I'll pass on the temptation to exploit your serious amateur status, but the attributes that drive you crazy, are the same elements that help drive sales. Consumers don't always know what's best, but they know what they want. Any builder NOT delivering the same, gets categorized as lame.

And what the hell is a 'bubble bow'?

[VikHatBer]

Originally Posted by YachtForums

Actually, Burger tried to expand production under the David Ross regime. This was the purpose of the new infrastructure he built during the run-up years, only to face the same challenges of the past... cash.

They still have backorders, right? I wish my company had as much 'gauranteed' business as Burger. I also bet Riviera and many other boat builders wished they were Burger.

Originally Posted by YachtForums

Actually, it's NEW money that's been funding Burger, especially as the dollar became weaker. Or should I say... the ruble became stronger.

The Russian ruble is worth less now than ever! 36.43 : $1 The most it ever gained against the dollar in the last 5 years was in 2007, when it the exchange rate was 26.58 : $1. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_ruble)

I HATE BUBBLE BOWS!!!

[YachtForums]

Yes, Bubble Bows can be aesthetically awkward. But even more annoying are people that hot link pictures to YF, which is against our rules. But I'm guessing that's not important to you?

Your links have been removed.

[VikHatBer]

Originally Posted by YachtForums

Your links have been removed.

Good! You did us a favor! Those bubble bows are just too ugly!

[NYCAP123]

Originally Posted by K1W1

That was surely said by those in the Automotive and Consumer Electronics Industry in the USA a few years ago as well.

I do not understand how a US Domestic operation can ever hope to compete labour and other cost wise with an operation where the wages are counted in cents per hour not dollars and the cost of environmental/retirement/pensions/health care does not need to be considered as there isn't any.

I remember well the days when we laughed at anything with "Made in Japan" stamped on it and Chinese products were the cupie dolls at carnivals. Obviously only fools don't take their manufacturing and products seriously. As for competing with their wages, tarriffs have to be imposed to balance price, but that's not so simple. We also want to sell to that huge market. The world is shifting, and I don't see any sure bet on how it will end up.

[Blair]

Originally Posted by NYCAP123

I remember well the days when we laughed at anything with "Made in Japan" stamped on it and Chinese products were the cupie dolls at carnivals. Obviously only fools don't take their manufacturing and products seriously. As for competing with their wages, tarriffs have to be imposed to balance price, but that's not so simple. We also want to sell to that huge market. The world is shifting, and I don't see any sure bet on how it will end up.

Agreed. Even the very wealthy, and highly experienced yacht owners to boot, are price sensitive - as I am sure the point has been made that many were astute enough in such matters to have accumulated their wealth in the first instance.

In this rather tiny country the superyachts built locally for European, Middle Eastern and US owners may comfortably compete as to quality and engineering with the very best Dutch and Italian yards but it would be naive to believe that the comparative price has not been a factor.

It may be that builders like Trinity hold a premium reputation in the US but that doesn't stop them contracting out interiors for example to offshore suppliers in countries like NZ that can offer both top quality and an apparent price advantage. Even so, Asian manufacturing is likely to displace many Western builders including the local ones here as the steady improvements in design and quality coupled with significant price advantage is largely irresistable. The best of the West will necessarily have to focus on the extreme top end market but that has its risk too. Maltese Falcon, an icon of quality and innovation was built for a US owner in Turkey for example. The next equivalent may well be built in China.