[booberandpuzz]

P.S.: I'm sure they're tired of it by now, but we were shown a very good reason to keep our distance.

[Norseman]

Relatively speaking, I don't see any arrogance or negligence in his decisions.

Did you read the Vanity Fair article?

Good and sound judgement all the way?

[Codger]

Gentlemen. Just a couple of thoughts.
Hindsight is 20/20, but only if you have all the facts. Unlike aviation incident reports performed by the NTSB, I don't believe that anyone other than the insurance company, and those present at the time have all the facts. If there were faults of omission or commission by the crew, the owner, the designers or the builders the insurance company will do whatever they can to prove it and reduce their payout. If those suits occur or are even considered is again something that will not be public.
Whether or not you are a fan of Pete Halmos is entirely irrelevant to this.
I think that most of us would expect to have taken what we say at face value and should accord the same to those involved.
There was a huge amount of damage during that storm and I would believe that most people did whatever they thought best at the time to protect their property.
It's tragic that this beautiful vessel has suffered the damage that it has and has ended up in this situation.
Now it's just a fascinating engineering project to get the hull out of there without causing further environmental damage.

[booberandpuzz]

Originally Posted by Norseman

Did you read the Vanity Fair article?

I did. For one, Vanity Fair is not National Geographic. Though they both occasionally include sensational pictures of naked people, I think their editorial objectives and standards are somewhat different. Frankly, I actually have a bit more respect for the guy for not sugar-coating his behavior just because some journalist was with him. If you look beneath the facade of our media-soaked world, my guess is that most of us would find genuine sympathies with those that don't play the PR game and not so much with the pretenders that do.

RELATIVELY SPEAKING ... I don't see negligence. That's just my humble opinion. I wasn't there, don't know the boat, the precise circumstances, or sequence of events, and neither do any of the detractors offering judgements here. If this discussion is about educating ourselves to not repeat such mistakes in judgement, then such a debate can be a good thing.

I really hope these guys find a way to save Legacy.

[Norseman]

If this discussion is about educating ourselves to not repeat such mistakes in judgement

So you agree there was a dose of poor judgement involved?

Then you don't think he should be blamed for poor judgement?

If you're going to blame his predicament on his poor judgement,

Whatever, but the result and the outcome speaks loud and clear in my humble opinion.

Yes, I agree we should dig deep into this "accident" to learn from it:

then such a debate can be a good thing.

I noted on some pictures with the masts still standing that the radar dome was still in place. I sure would like to know what brand the radar was, as it could indeed be labeled "hurricane proof".

On the other hand, I would shy away from the type, or "brand" anchors that came apart when most needed.
The anchors was the last line of defence and they could have saved the day if properly designed, constructed, sized and set. (Lots of IFs here, but nevertheless, the weakest link in the chain, etc.)

I really hope these guys find a way to save Legacy.

Wonder if she may be beyond saving?
It may cost as much to fix her up as to build a new one as the damage could be pretty deep.

Perhaps time to cut her up and barge the pieces away?

[booberandpuzz]

Originally Posted by Norseman

So you agree there was a dose of poor judgement involved?

Then you don't think he should be blamed for poor judgement?

I agree that you are dogged in your determination to BLAME these guys, which is fine. But you seem just as determined to convince others to do so as well. I'll invite you to keep your negative viewpoint, but I'm content to keep mine.

Originally Posted by Norseman

Wonder if she may be beyond saving?
It may cost as much to fix her up as to build a new one as the damage could be pretty deep.

Perhaps time to cut her up and barge the pieces away?

The owner has done some cost analysis that's been published and he thinks it's worthwhile. I have nothing on which to base a contradictory view. It looks bad on the outside, but that's all cosmetic--fairing compound stripped away and paint scratched up. Structurally she's intact (but for the rigging) and the interiors are spectacular. I'd try everything to save her if she were mine. I still hope the salvage effort works, but nothing has gotten underway as yet.

[lurker]

I am curious to know what might have happened if he docked the boat. What happened to the other boats at that marina where he refused to dock?

[Chitowner]

I wonder what happened to Legacy, wasn't the work supposed to start a while back? Does anyone have any info?

[Norseman]

Sorry I am late responding, been out of the country for 34 days and not paid any attention to the bulletin boards.

I agree that you are dogged in your determination to BLAME these guys, which is fine. But you seem just as determined to convince others to do so as well. I'll invite you to keep your negative viewpoint, but I'm content to keep mine.

Nah, not BLAMING anybody, rather asking pointed questions.
Based on the information available, it SEEMS poor judgment can have been a factor.
I am neither the NTSB or the US Coast Guard and not my job to find probable cause.

That being said, a healthy discussion on hurricane techniques and proper equipment based on actual events is not a bad thing, especially for guys that live the same area and are facing similar hurricane strikes every year.

As for "I'll invite you to keep your negative viewpoint, "

Forums like this is for sharing positive, negative and neutral viewpoints under certain guidelines.
If you think I am out of line, feel free to contact the site administration and I am sure they will clean up my negative postings if indeed out of line.

In the meantime I don't need your permission to question the design or the quality of anchors of the vessel, or the decision to stay in the path of the 'cane.

Again, I am stopping short of laying the blame or stating the cause of the accident, but I sure as hell would like to know how this could have happened and the decision- making process involved.

And finally, I hope there is a happy ending to this and I am really curious how to salvage Legacy given her present state and position.

[K1W1]

Hi,

Good reply Norseman.

It is well balanced and clearly stated.

[Chitowner]

I'm going to Key West at the end of the week, I'm gonna try to find Legacy, anyone know the mile-marker?

[1sailor]

Have they begun constructing the coffer-dam to float legacy again ?

This should be well underway by now since the permits are in place-- anyone have an update ?

[kite house]

i was there throught the huricane, this picture is 2 days after, i kited up to the boat......we got an f-1 tornado that day s well, then it hit and the surge was huge, why they waited i have no idea, there was 5 days before it hit. Boats were everywhere.

aloha Paul

[nereus]

I was there at the begining of March and was flying an ultra light around the island and went and checked it out. they had started to build the ****s all the way around it when I was there. I didnt read every single post in here so sorry if this is repeated.. They were going to build up the **** move it a little then move the ****, move the boat. and on and on. If you are down there check out the guy that flies the ultra light. right when you get into key west where the road t's off and you go right to go into duval. at the end of the lagoon on the right youll see the orange and yellow ultralight there, right by where you can rent jet skis. The guy is real cool and hell take you out there if you ask, he knows right where its at. But from the air you can see the trench that it dug out when it went in there. I am going back this weekend, dont know if I will do the ultralights but I might try to get out there on a jet ski. Ill try to update on monday

[Norseman]

Thanks for the update: This will be an interesting piece of salvage and engineering.

Keep us posted.

Hi,

Good reply Norseman.

It is well balanced and clearly stated.

Thanks!
Yeah, I got no ill feelings and not trying to second guess the accident.

Rather I used to be a full time live-aboard on a 44 feet sailboat with no insurance in the Caribbean years ago and have a healthy respect for good anchors and hurricane warnings.
Therefore scratching my noggin on this one..How could it happen? How could the anchors "come apart", etc..etc..

On present boat I put an anchor system in place that would in theory let me ride out a 'cane.
Thet anchor system came to 10 % of the value of the boat.
(Used boat, picture on the avatar to the left)

I realize all bets are off if ya are in the path of a major 'cane, but at least start with good gear.
(Like an anchor with the holding power equal to the displacement of the boat..Easy on a small boat, but is there any rule of thumb for big yachts like the Leagacy?)

Are these big yachts designed and built to stay in marinas all the time and not ride out storms at anchor? Ever?

Anchors and rode sized for near-gales only..?