Legacy on the Hard

CaptTom · 02-05-2007, 04:48 PM

Ken, Very creative. There is some good use for that **** purple dinosaur.
Just don't know why they haven't slapped on a fresh coat of bottom paint while they've been sittng there. LoL

veggie_burger · 02-05-2007, 06:08 PM

It's always the Capt's fault no matter what goes wrong. If they headed out to sea and all died then it was his fault. If they wash up on a mud bank it's still his fault. It's hard to say what you would have done in that situation. I have survived a Cat4 at anchor by running my engines to take strain off of the anchors but it was just blind luck. You never know what those freaking storms will do. I now have hurricanes figured out. I hole up at 45 degrees north for the summer! They all survived and are here to tell the sea story. Still it all boils down to the capt's judgement and right or wrong it's your fault if your in command.

Norseman · 02-05-2007, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Still it all boils down to the capt's judgement and right or wrong it's your fault if your in command

Yup, I know all about it.

For the last umpteen years I have been the captain on a 225' fast ship called the Boeing 747.

Whenever something went wrong the fingers pointed in my direction.
Fortunately I have never bent any metal or caused any damage to flesh.
On the other hand, disasters can be avoided by being super-conservative, not just by pure luck.

(The experienced mariner and the experienced flyer however knows that luck plays a part in the big picture.)

Or as my bumber sticker says:

"Just because you are not paranoid does not mean somebody is not out to get you."

veggie_burger · 02-05-2007, 09:43 PM

The owner of the boat I run originally brought this incident to my attention and asked me who was at fault. I can only guess that the owner wanted to hang out in Key West for some reason at that time of year. That being said could a sailing vessel of that size gone anywhere that would have been safer?
Out to sea is one thought but the Phantome did the same thing in Mitch and has not been seen since

:

. Any harbors big enough to hide in? Run to Cuba? Tie to the dock. Where the hell does one plan to hide from a Cat 5 storm in a big freaking Perinavi? Could it have gone up the Miami River to Jones or Merrill Stevens? I guess most big sailing boats head to the Med and spend the summer with Meltimi and Sirocco's and not Fran, Hugo and Katrina. Or hang out with fog in the NE until after the cold fronts make it down here. Any armchair captains have any good ideas what they would have done if they were at the wheel of that boat say a few days prior to the known storm coming at them? After Andrew and Hugo I know now that my life is not worth staying aboard the boat.

Norseman · 02-06-2007, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Any armchair captains have any good ideas what they would have done if they were at the wheel of that boat say a few days prior to the known storm coming at them?

Hmm, good questions.

I am fairly certain that if I was going to hang around the path of the big storm I would have made sure I had solid anchors and some swinging room.

One can only judge by the results I guess.

If memory serves right after reading the VF article a month or two ago, the captain on the ship recommended going somewhere else, but the owner had no respect for no hurricanes and insisted on staying in place...

YachtNews · 02-06-2007, 11:31 AM

Here is a nice link about the Legacy....http://alt.coxnewsweb.com/palmbeachp...cent/marooned/

MikeElliston · 02-06-2007, 07:03 PM

what he could have done was either run south of the hurricane belt, run north out of reach, or take to the Med, it doesn't matter anymore though, what happened has happened, i'm going to be moving to South Florida before too long, and if i could, i would run south of the belt during the season.

Norseman · 02-06-2007, 08:42 PM

Quote:

what he could have done was either run south of the hurricane belt, run north out of reach, or take to the Med,

Yup, that would have been the ultimate solution: Get the hell out of town before the season starts.
Especially if the boat is not designed or equipped to weather a storm.

As Wilma approached, with a fairly accurate path predicted by the National Hurricane Center, they could have ran East to the Islands.

Not sure what Legacy can do under power? 15 Knots or so?
300 NM in a day? 600 in 2 days?
Problem solved.

Hate to play Monday Morning Quarterback, but I hate even more to look at that beatiful boat sitting in the mud with nowhere to go because of ignorance..

YachtNews · 02-12-2007, 05:03 PM

And for those who did not see BrandonW's post to the Perini Navi website.. Here is it again... showing some interior and exterior shots of Legacy in Calmer wind and deeper water(before the incident)

http://www.perininavi.it/galleria.cfm?IdBarca=19#

Garry Hartshorn · 02-12-2007, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeElliston

what he could have done was either run south of the hurricane belt, run north out of reach, or take to the Med, it doesn't matter anymore though, what happened has happened, i'm going to be moving to South Florida before too long, and if i could, i would run south of the belt during the season.

Thats south of 10 N or Venezuela, Colombia, Panama.

WUURK · 02-16-2007, 02:32 AM

Hi All,
Does any one have any update to the Legacy of Legacy???

booberandpuzz · 02-21-2007, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeElliston

what he could have done was either run south of the hurricane belt, run north out of reach, or take to the Med,

Ever heard of hurricane Mitch? Look it up. I won't say that everything these guys did was perfect, but it was a big, resurgent hurricane. It came from the SOUTHWEST and the NHC kept predicting it would "get on the fast conveyor of the jet stream" and race northeast, but as a diminished Cat 1 or weak Cat 2 storm. My wife and I stayed at home in Key West, never considered evacuation, and had the Atlantic Ocean in our house at 4:00am, then the Gulf of Mexico made a visit at about 10:30am. As good as the NHC is, we still get surprised sometimes.

If you're going to blame his predicament on his poor judgement, then let's talk about decisions made by owners of the THOUSANDS of boats--commercial and private--along the Gulf coast that were destroyed or dropped inside Interstate 10. Oil rigs, as well. Let's talk about casino barges, or a coastal city sitting 15 feet below sea level. Relatively speaking, I don't see any arrogance or negligence in his decisions. I hope, if he's able to get repairs made, they resolve the issue with taking on so much water through vents in rough seas. That sounds like possible negligence on the part of the designer and/or builder, not the owner or captain.

Armchair quarterbacks and backseat drivers, I'd label a few in this thread. It's a semi-anonymous internet where perhaps all you've ever piloted is a nine-year-old Camaro with bald tires, but somehow you're "qualified" to berate the seasoned skipper of such a vessel. Who was the smug character in "Risky Business" who said, "I don't have to pay for it" and then went home to his video games while everyone else got laid?

This is a spectacular boat and I truly hope they're able to salvage it successfully. This hurricane, unbeknownst to many, did an awful lot of damage to already stressed corals in our area--damage that had nothing to do with boats aground or sunk. Legacy's situation looks fairly bad on the aerial photos but I congratulate the Sanctuary and Reef Relief for having the good sense to not fine Legacy's owner for being put aground by such a storm. Perhaps the reason no other boats went aground in the Sanctuary during Wilma is that Dennis, Katrina, and Rita had already sunk so many of them.

I wish them luck, though I do think they'll succeed.

MikeElliston · 02-21-2007, 10:21 PM

BOOBERANDPUZZ ....
first of all, welcome to YF,

secondly, on your profile it saw that you are a diver and engineer, there are CAPTAINS on this thread discussing this incident, and what each would have done, yes it is a shame that the Captain of this magnificent vessel had the lack of common sense to avoid the hurricane belt during the season, especially when there is a hurricane, i have been sailing in close to hurricane conditions before, i know that it is not fun, please show some RESPECT (look it up) to those who have invested the time in earning the title of a captain.

Loren Schweizer · 02-21-2007, 11:11 PM

Booberandpuzz:

Welcome and let me say, "Nice style".
Hope we here more from you.

booberandpuzz · 02-23-2007, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeElliston

BOOBERANDPUZZ ....
first of all, welcome to YF,

secondly, on your profile it saw that you are a diver and engineer, there are CAPTAINS on this thread discussing this incident, and what each would have done, yes it is a shame that the Captain of this magnificent vessel had the lack of common sense to avoid the hurricane belt during the season, especially when there is a hurricane, I have been sailing in close to hurricane conditions before, i know that it is not fun, please show some RESPECT (look it up) to those who have invested the time in earning the title of a captain.

Thanks. I recall answering questions as to my interests and profession. If I looked at your profile would I choose to buy you a drink or ask that you be shown the door? Personally, I wouldn't bother ... it's the INTERNET (look it up), a.k.a. Pretend World, a.k.a No Qualification Req'd to express an opinion or throw rocks. In this environment, you have only to evaluate someone's opinion on its merits and supporting arguments. But if I'm a CAPTAIN--and I've met some pimply-faced morons with the title--I'm qualified to defend or slam these guys, right?

We had a look at the Legacy today, thinking the salvage operation might have started already, but found otherwise. We're hoping they succeed if for no other reason than that this is a lousy situation for anyone to be in. Never mind the guy has money; it's a lousy situation. He has not done like so many other billionaires do: pay someone to fix it. He is here, engaged, and has his "hands on" the situation. He's in love with this boat and what it represents in his life and I can simply relate to that. My boat is just a lot smaller.

Speaking to the CAPTAINS on this thread, the only thing I wonder about is the decision to lay to on the "bay side" of the Keys. This worked great for Dennis, Katrina, and Rita, all storms that tracked along the Florida Strait side. Wilma was forecasted to track along the bay (Gulf) side, so I think I might have chosen a different spot if I planned to anchor out. It's so easy to say that now ... but can I even pose that question that as an engineer or diver? I even pilot my own boat out in the actual ocean when I want to go diving.

Picture shot 2/23/2007. Hope it uploads (my first attempt at this and apologies if it fails).