[brian eiland]

Thanks for your criticism Daiwa. I must always remain open to outside suggestions. Please be aware that this is not a final design….it is a concept from which an individual will modify it according to his/her needs.

Originally Posted by daiwa

Because your outdoor design overall is very balloon there´s not much flat space & work & walk if needed. Any change of the sails ie. requires crew to walk ahead of the hull.

I understand your concern here. I believe the model of the vessel helps create this ‘balloon’ misconception both with its pronounced rounded shape, and with the color distinction between the deck edge and the hull sides located in a ‘sheer sort of manner’. The curvature on the scale model is actually greater than on the actual drawings of the vessel. The deck in this area is actually much flatter than it appears on the model. Carrying the deck color over into the topside area to ‘fake’ a lower sheer line also contributes to this more rounded appearance. Then there are lifelines provided along this deck’s edge that are not shown on the model, nor on the drawing.

You might note that a “change of sails” is not required of my sailing rig, so there is not the necessity to go forward to do anything with the headsails. And since I don’t have a traditional mainsail, it is not necessary to climb up on the deckhouse roof to facilitate a reefing or storing of that sail.

No problem to add a ‘soffa’ to the bow area

….second level (flybridge), which usually is most popular space for people to stay is strange way too small when considering the boat size even if your would add flybridge option. It’s also sun and raining protection roof for the maindeck where dinner & entertainment has been planned to be ie. dinners.

Again I emphasize this was just the concept drawing. I elected to show the very minimum of an upper control station, and particularly one that would not interfere with the fishing cockpit. There was a seat provided for the helmsman, and there could be another beside that. Further to the opposite side there was an open deck area where one might lay out a big cushion for two sunbathers or lounging passengers. In this fishing version it was a limited flybridge area. At the aft edge of the deckhouse roof there could be a rolled-up deployable shade that could provide rain or sun cover to the most aft portions of huge aft maindeck area. And of course there would be a foldable bimini cover for the helmsman and his mate.

Third issue could be size of the second level ie. flybridge, you had missed a lot of squaremeters for nothing considering the overall size of the boat. Remember second level where boat skipper is also located while sailing is most popular space to stay for all people in the boat while sailing. This is usually one of those key things which makes cat to have huge squaremeters and space to stay vs. mohohulls.

Alternatively for the non-fishing motorsailing version there could be a provided a larger flybridge area ala the Lagoon 500, or an even bigger area much as with the new Lagoon Powercat 44. Steve Dashew has praised the use he gets out of his flybridge area onboard FPB. http://www.setsail.com/dashew/Fly_Bridge.html
But have a look a little closer. In most cases the flybrige area is expanded when the lower deck availability is more limited. If you have a really nice BIG aft deck area and big sunning areas up front, you begin to question the need for a really big flybridge area in addition.

I have one other problem with really expansive flybridge areas. You need to provide increasing amounts of headroom and clearance for the boom of the mainsail. The booms get to be 20 feet off the water, and thus the overall rig heights go up to 100 feet and more. Stability of the vessel is adversely affected. And the very positive aerodynamic interaction between the big lower portion of the genoa with the non-existent mainsail area of this high-boomed mainsail, is lost. For a visual http://www.wb-sails.fi/news/98_11_PerfectShape/Main.htm and scroll down to "Think One" Discussion http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthr...p?t=457&page=7

Catamaran pontoons from the backside should be well sized, to design "backsteps", in your design they are far too small and seems to not carry overall hull royal way. For me it looks like a there´s only 2 sticks where the huge hull lies. See the example for example french factory where this part of the design has been taken good care

I will assume you are questioning both the bulk of my hulls in this area, as well as the size of the backsteps?? Far too many of the French cats are designed for the charter trade and carrying big loads in shorter boats. The slenderness ratio of their hulls is often in the 8-1 or 9-1 range. My vessel carries a 14.5-1 ratio. It’s this slenderness that allows the vessel to avoid displacement resistance, and to carve thru the water with less sail and/or power requirements. Big fat transoms are more buoyant and require a resisting buoyancy at the other end….thus fatter bows that plow up more water or increase the pitching tendency. And be particularly concerned when running down big waves with big sterns.

I’ve seen all of these ‘grand stairways’ to the sea that incidentally most often offer no handholds to grab onto….fine at the boatshows, but not at sea. I much prefer to walk down my more narrow, indented steps with something to hold onto, or lean against rather than fall over the side. Besides I don’t need a big width of steps to stroll down side-by-side. I did notice that the great looking Exclusive 72 also chose to 'indent' their stern stairs. http://www.exclusive-marine.com/page...rticle-28.html

Forth thing came to my mind also, are you trying to start new factory and cat brand with your own designs ? That require a lot and very good / professionals venture capitalists on board, even you would build first boat at your own risk.

No factory, nor my own brand. This is not intended to be a ‘production boat’. It is a custom design, a concept, and meant to be the basis from which to do some similar vessels. If I could afford it I would definitely have one for myself.

Boat concept is only one small piece of it. If you do so, at least turn out from US market for less expensive labor markets like to somewhere to FarEast. It´s not easy to enter to the market which is all ready full (=meaning perfect competition running all ready ) ….that in mind only thing where you find yourself from the marketplace is to be competitor by pricing. Remember that buyers require major and long history of building boats/yachts, backgroud, sometimes also success in sail competitions (actually numbers of builders had started they reputation via this way like Nautor Swan). This all bring to have also decent maintenance / warranty availability also.

I only do the design, not the building. I suggest to the client good builders from around the world that offer their history at building & warranty. And I offer an extremely cautious warning about building in China. Many of these yards will promise everything and not deliver.

….because your boat does not offer nothing new innovation which no-one else does (not including your rig and sails are more than usual) . Overall I think shaping a boat too much it’s not todays design anymore and haven’t see any does it either, even sailing boat bows have nowadays very sharp waterline.

I’m not exactly understanding your English here, but I assume you are saying ‘other than my sailing rig’ my design offers nothing new??

Well I beg to differ with you, but then not all new designs offer new innovation each time….many are variations on the past with differences in layout or appearance. Each design has its own style. I happen to think the current ‘fade’ of plum bows is often quite ugly, and particularly on already ‘boxy’ catamarans. And I think those sheer-lines that are drawn with a straight-edge ruler are ugly as well. A posting I made on the subject, Bow Aesthetics,
http://boatdesign.net/forums/showpos...3&postcount=87
http://boatdesign.net/forums/showpos...5&postcount=88

BTW, did you notice my plum bow variation on my 60 footer? (a variation of Lock Crowther’s Super Shockwave“Wahoo” http://www.boatdesign.net/gallery/sh...6/limit/recent


....Lets see, not including my innovative sailing rig….

How many ‘modern’ cruising cats do you find with centerboards??.
Or with the suggestion of a single centerboard, nacelle mounted??
How many with belt driven props, or forward facing props, and retractable props??
How many with a different type of bulkhead construction (resilent)??
How many with the rigging loads keyed so directly with the main bulkhead??
How many with a fore-to-aft bulkhead stiffening arrangement??
How many with an aux fuel tank that gravity feeds the engine in an emergency??
How many with a crow’s nest??
How many with a sword-fishing bow pulpit??
How many with a custom tender arrangement??
How many with the man-overboard pole slot in the transom??
How many with the rear seating over the engine to provide extra access and standing headroom??
How many with an aerodynamic-shaped deckhouse??



...Wahoo bow on mine
.

[brian eiland]

This site was just brought to my attention on another forum,
http://www.hybridfishingboat.org/index.html

This vessel intends to make use of a 'different sailing rig' and 'diesel/electric technology', as does mine, but it is a monohull rather than a multihull. It is also geared towards the commerical market rather than the sportfishing market



"The mission of the Hybrid Fishing Boat Project is to design, build, test and produce a hybrid commercial fishing vessel."

Little more than a hundred years ago, most of the boats in San Francisco's fishing fleet were feluccas, such as the one pictured above. Feluccas were seaworthy and easy to handle, but with the arrival of marine engines and cheap fossil fuel they disappeared from San Francisco Bay.

With a nod to the felucca, the Hybrid Fishing Boat Project hopes to produce a modern fishing vessel powered by the wind the sun and alternative fuels.

Successfully harnessing wind and solar power power to drastically reduce the burning of carbon based fuels in commercial fishing boats has obvious benefits for the environment, but this project is equally about saving an endangered species -- the small independent fishers.

While the price fishers receive for their catch (their income) has remained flat or decreased in recent years, their costs for everything from bait to berthing fees have increased, but few costs have increased as much as fuel.

In 1985, San Francisco wholesalers paid about $3.75 a pound for salmon and a gallon of #2 marine diesel cost about 45 cents. Today, in 2006, fishers still receive about $3.75 a pound for salmon while marine diesel fuel sells for close to $3.00 per gallon -- six times the 1985 price. This is eating the profits of fishing boats that use a lot of fuel and/or travel great distances. Read a good article from the Juneau Empire about the effect high fuel prices were having on the Alaska fishing fleet -- before the post Katrina price increases.

"If the fishing industry were a country, it would rank with the Netherlands as the world's 18th-largest oil consumer, a team of fisheries scientists is reporting. In 2000, the scientists said, fisheries around the world burned about 13 billion gallons of fuel to catch 80 million tons of fish...." NY Times 12/20/05

80 million tons = 160 billion pounds of fish
13 billion gallons = 88 billion pounds of fuel

Using those numbers, it would seem that for every pound of fish caught worldwide, more than a half pound of fossil fuel is burned. Yikes!

Fishers are environmentalists by nature. They rely on clean oceans, abundant wetlands and free-flowing rivers for their livelihood. Helping the environment and realizing significant savings on fuel costs will appeal to many fishers, but the hybrid fishing boat must be a practical commercial vessel if it has any hope of success in the marketplace. That is the challenge of this project.

Hedley Prince -- Updated July 2006

[brian eiland]

Originally Posted by diawa

Catamaran pontoons from the backside should be well sized, to design "backsteps", in your design they are far too small and seems to not carry overall hull royal way. For me it looks like a there´s only 2 sticks where the huge hull lies. See the example for example french factory where this part of the design has been taken good care

Brian had replied: I’ve seen all of these ‘grand stairways’ to the sea that incidentally most often offer no handholds to grab onto….fine at the boatshows, but not at sea. I much prefer to walk down my more narrow, indented steps with something to hold onto, or lean against rather than fall over the side. Besides I don’t need a big width of steps to stroll down side-by-side.

I was just attending the Annapolis Sailboat Show and took a couple of photos of these two different sterns that illustrate my point. Which one would you rather negoiate, particularly at sea?

[brian eiland]

Just looked thru Bruce Pfund’s latest article “Shootout” in PBB No 101, Jun/Jul ‘06. I thought I would drop you a short note to be taken with a little light-hearted ribbing.

I’ve really enjoyed Bruce’s articles in the past, and particularly took note of one where he detailed the fishing cockpit, PBB No 78 (“Sportfishing Boat Layout”). I hope to make use of some of those insightful details when I finally find a brave client to really push the boundaries of a new gamefisher design.

In “Shootout” Bruce wrote, “…deviations from the day’s norm are small. Will anyone dare to break away from the now traditional tuna tower and try a single, aerodynamically efficient, unstayed mast with an aero-style crow’s nest…”
Well I guess you might say I’ve taken that ‘crow’s nest-on-a-composite-mast’ challenge to the EXTREME. I’ve extended that mast, and added a sailing rig. I need to expand the size of my crow’s nest a bit more, and it wouldn’t necessarily have to be located as far up the mast. I do like the idea of the ‘elevator’ as on Jim Smith’s Boca Jima. He was quite an innovator wasn’t he.

Interesting that Smith did not feel the need for the additional flybridge helm as well. I had included this additional helm on my deckhouse roof since the crow’s nest was not sufficiently expansive in my original drawings. I had also considered exploring a sort of fold-away, pop-up, podium type helm station at that roof location. This would provide for good communication between the captain and the fishing cockpit in close fighting situations, and might be rigged to handle the teaser reels also.

Bruce wrote, “Will 2006 be the year that large low-drag unstayed carbon outriggers appear?”
I think being able to clip lines on both my twin backstays and my relatively short unstayed carbon outriggers, and across the whole big beam of this vessel, should make for quite a bait spread without unruly longer riggers.

The new Volvo IPS prop system might substitute for my belt-driven concept, but lets go up another whole notch and eliminate conventional props and supports altogether. How about adapting the latest Rim-Driven Propeller technologies:
http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/23867-post8.html
http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/technical-discussion/3961-rim-driven-propellers.html

These propulsion units can be 1) smaller in diameter than their prop counterparts, 2) tucked under the hull closer to the hull bottom, 3) located further forward from the transom, 4) retractable, 5) far less nosey, 6) less susceptible to fouling, 7) serviceable without hauling the vessel, etc. Rim-drives are electrically driven by a magnet component in the rim of the prop, so they would require the latest technologies associated with diesel/electric propulsion. Carbon blades in the rim-drives combined with low speed, hi-torque electric drive would produce phenomenal maneuverability at slow fighting speeds, and without any reduction/direction gearboxes.

Plus you would have all of the electricity you could possible want onboard without the extra weight of the usual one or two auxiliary generator units. Set up right this could be a real fuel-sipping offshore fishing machine (much less fuel weight to propel & haul around). The sails could all be electrically furled.

Bruce mentioned, “within a year or two the first oven-baked, carbon-fiber, pre-preg sportfisherman will arrive on the scene….the quantum leap its presence will represent…”
By analogy this 65 gamefishing cat I’m proposing done in all-carbon might find its nearest comparison with the very lt-weight built GunBoat 62 catamaran:
http://www.deltayachtsbrokerage.com/dyeng/gunboat-en.html
http://www.gunboat.info/home.html
My design will of course be heavier with its significantly greater engine power, and it won’t carry that same sail area to displacement ratio, but it does maintain that slenderness in the hulls and a relatively lt-weight of a carbon build.

Upon looking at the opening photo of the article down the long line of boats, I noticed that not one of the vessels had a tender onboard (nor chocks for same). These vessels are all ‘dock dwellers’. They would have a hard time spending a night away from the dock, or a few days away from a fuel supply. So rather than refer to them as ‘offshore fishing vessels’, I think they might better be termed ‘tournament fishing vessels’. They are specialized for tournaments, something mine is not.

Bruce wrote, “The challenge is to innovate while still creating a boat that is not so radically custom, or weird that no one will want to buy it. Or that is so finely tuned for a particular fishery that its efficiency is compromised when chasing other species.”
Well I guess I failed the ‘radically custom’ part by a long shot, and it certainly hasn’t been easy coming up with a client to buy one (the mixture of sail with fishing or power has been no easy sell). But then I have never represented this design as a tournament boat. It is clearly a ‘get out there on your own bottom, go-anywhere-in-the-world’ vessel. I would surely think there’d be a few of those really adventurous fishing guys around. My vessel should not appear so radical to them, and its versatile enough to fish on the flats as well as the ocean.

And it just might fair well in a couple of tournaments…..if they dare let her in.

Note: I posted some of this same discussion in the specific sportfishing area. If you want to see a picture of the 'pod-tower' have a look here:

[brian eiland]

The recent issue (Oct ’06) of Power Cruising Magazine contained the following editorial by the editor Pierce Hoover. I thought I might post it to this discussion as it comes from a gentleman with a fishing interest, and it’s another affirmation of the multihull vessel configuration for ‘other-than-sailing-vessel’ application.

I’ve highlighted a few passages that caught my attention. These passage subjects are either addressed in other portions of this forum thread, or I make a short reply to them at the end of the ......editorial:

Cat Fancy

Like a growing number of cruisers, I’ve developed an interest in powercats. The increased popularity of twin-hulled cruisers has in turn fueled a wave of design innovation, and in the months and years to come, we are likely to see a whole new breed of cat on the water.

My fascination with power-driven multihulls began in the mid ‘80s when I was editor of a big-game fishing magazine. While in Kona, Hawaii, I often fished aboard a friend’s homebuilt cat that was essentially a platform set atop a pair of long, thin hulls. Twin 15-hp outboards propelled this improbable 28-footer through benign Pacific swells with minimal effort, allowing us to troll all day on a meager few gallons of fuel.

I encountered a somewhat different breed of cat when I fished Australian and South African waters. There, frequently tumultuous seas and rising fuel costs had spawned a crop of rugged, planing-hull cats that were increasingly the small boat of choice for local anglers.

Several U.S. builders dallied with similar concepts in the mid ‘90s, and in my enthusiasm, I acquired a 24-foot center-console cat with the expectation that it would he the finest small craft I’d ever owned. This was, in fact, a pretty nice boat, but like all things that float, it had its good and bad points, which included a high degree of weight sensitivity and a tendency to bow steer alarmingly in certain sea conditions.

I learned a lot more about the realities of multihulls when I bought a half-ownership in a 39-foot sailing catamaran. It didn’t take long to discover that for every advantage gained, others were lost or at least compromised.

Soon afterward, I became quite involved in a friend’s search for a fast, efficient, shallow-draft cruiser with sufficient range to linger in the more remote regions of the southern Bahamas. We patrolled the boat shows, talked with brokers, and studied plans from designers such as John Shuttleworth. None of the craft then on the market fit the bill, lacking either the desired range, accommodations or performance.

One of our wilder ideas was to remove the mast from the aforementioned 39-foot sailing catamaran and add larger engines. On several occasions since, I’ve met cruisers who actually did pull the stick from their catamarans and were happily motoring about at 6 or 7 knots, sipping diesel at a ridiculously low rate.

Some of the first powercats to reach the market followed a similar philosophy and had as much (or more) in common with their sailing cousins as with traditional trawlers or motoryachts. Traces of this heritage can still be seen in various current model, though the builders have long since modified hull shapes and other aspects of the design to accommodate the power format

But in the last year or so, there seem to be a growing number of designers and builders who are breaking new ground, creating boats that are more than just modified sailing cats or flybridge cruiserswith their hulls split in half. Due to ample media coverage and a reputation for economical operation, these new designs are receiving considerable interest from the cruising community.

How much of this interest translates into increased sales remains to be seen. There is no perfect, one-size-fits-all boat, powercats included. But they do offer a number of attractive advantages for certain styles of cruising, and they will likely become an increasingly familiar fixture of the cruising scene.


Noted:
1)…good and bad…
Both the large and small multihull can be very sensitive to weight capacities and weight distribution along there slender hulls. Bow steering can be more alarming at high speeds running with the wave form, and particularly with small or no rudders.

2)…search for….
As I’ve pointed out on a number of occasions one might be able to get a fairly large catamaran capable of world wide ocean cruising of remote areas and still be able to negotiate the shallow banks surrounding islands.

3)…growing number of designers…how much of this translates into sales...
I’ve been promoting these ideas for a long time and I’ve not seen it translate into sales. Admittedly I have been trying to marry up the power guy with a vessel with sails…extra tough sell, but explosive fuel prices might push things along. The smaller vessels may well lead the way.

[yipster]

Great thread i missed with trouty and all

i like to economicly world cruise with your mast / fishingtower idea,
it all makes sence to me, if i had those big bucks i layed them out
and see them multiplied in 10 years or so

boats get build, and why not like this, as Carl formulated somewhere
"the produkt is much bigger than the sum of its components"

would like a bit more of a powerhull like i sketched than

[brian eiland]

On another forum this subject came up...

Originally Posted by richardproeller

I have been sailing and chartering many years on my 52 feet monohull incl. 4 Atlantic crossings, but that was all about 11 years ago. Since then I have always had the idea to build a "big" catamaran for worldwide cruising and chartering.
I'm basically looking for a boatyard anywhere in the world capable of building the hull in aluminum to my drawings and specifications at a high level of production quality and with qualified welders and workers. The rest of the construction will be done by myself together with local workers and friends to save on costs. Somebody can point me in the right direction where I could build such a boat and what I have to expect in costs for such a construction.
I read here a while ago about prices from 6 to 10 US Dollars per kilo of structure in Thailand. Is that still realistic, as it sounds pretty good to me.
Any input is greatly appreciated

Hello Richard,
If you wish to look at SE Asia for your alum project, I might suggest you contact Bob Mott who is doing some nice 50 footers in alum. I believe he is going about with proper alum materials and welders. He is actually building in Malaysia. I met him in Thailand several years ago when he was initially looking for a builder, and I've followed his project sparingly.

Am I to assume you already have the design you wish to build? And why are you so set on alum?

That's a pretty big cat you have in mind. What portion of the charter market are you aiming at, and what location for the charters? At the high end of the charter market you might not need so large an accomodation (vessel). Have you talked with a charter specialist? I know of one, and this one has done lots of work with large cats.

Here's one alternative idea in charter....remote area fishing groups. I once had several gentlemen talking to me about building 6 of my gamefishing cats and stationing them around the world in various prime, remote, big-game fishing areas in lieu of a 'mothership operation' that was anchored to one location and had to be moved as a whole entity. They figured the cost equation was near the same at 6 of my vessels.

[brian eiland]

Originally Posted by nas130

Are any of you actual fisherman????

Trolling with sails alone?

Generally diesels raise fish!!!

Mabye the waters your heading to are better than the ones I have fished.

Nick

Just looking thru the forum and ran across a few comments about noise and fishing:
http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/ge...sing-fish.html

Originally Posted by Cranky

Can't say I am an expert on this but several years ago I got into this discussion with an older guy who had several about "60 or so" I believe world records over the years. his belief was the quieter and less turbulant that the vessel was the better.

Originally Posted by Loren Schweizer

I'm with cranky.
There once was a 42 sportfisherman built by a renowned manufacturer. All the other 42s ever built caught fish except this one.
The mystery was solved when an astute mechanic found that one of the prop shafts was so poorly aligned with the shaft log, it left bronze "sawdust" in the bilge from the wear and scraping between the two-- must have made some kind of racket underwater.

With proper clearance between the two-- and, presumably, no more noise-- the boat entered a tournament and caught fish.

I was a firsthand witness to all this, BTW.

....I had written on my website, "I've also heard the many claims by various captains about their individual boat's particular sound being an attraction for raising fish. I find it difficult to believe that a very loud (water is a great amplifier and transmitter of sound), foreign sound would act to attract a large predator fish seeking out their food source in the ocean's natural environment. Loud, unnatural noises have in most cases acted to disperse aquatic life."

[cranky]

Something elso to add to my comment about noise and vibration. The same person also believed that a large, slow turning, cavitation free, prop was a good fish attractor. He could account for several large billfish (world record) that he had caught in such a propwash.

So there is something to be said about some boats raising fish better than others. Raising being seperate from not scaring away, and I find it difficult to believe that any diesel engine attracts fish. I think it has more to do with water flow and smooth regular rythmic vibration.

[brian eiland]

Originally Posted by cranky

I think it has more to do with water flow and smooth regular rythmic vibration.

I think I might agree with that

[cranky]

Brian

I have been reading through your stuff. Interesting, nearly put me to sleep with all those words but the ideas were there.

Fishing under sail nothing new about that people have been successfully fishing under sail for thousands of years. Just they didn't turn it into a professional sport. And I can only applaud you on having the balls to design a vessel to do just that.

But I have to ask why the wierd rig that will undoubtedly at some point in time break. I can see at a glance at least 3 places where the loads must be incredable to keep the thing up while under sail. To sail this rig in 15 to 20 in any direction the loading on the mast base and back stays must be off the planet. I can only imagine that if the rig stayed together then the hulls and or cross beams must bend and twist like crazy. Even on a conventional rig this can be a major issue.

Now If I were to be designing a vessel to carry out this task I would be looking at the "freedom 40" as my starting point, a medium displacment mono hull with a free standing ketch rig and wishbone booms fitted with lazy jacks. Or maybe take it to trimaran with a similar rig, I do not belive that you could make it structurely sound on a cat.

Looking forward to the replies.

[brian eiland]

Originally Posted by cranky

I have been reading through your stuff. Interesting, nearly put me to sleep with all those words but the ideas were there.

Sorry about that, I'm not a particularly good writer, I realize that

Originally Posted by cranky

Fishing under sail nothing new about that people have been successfully fishing under sail for thousands of years. And I can only applaud you on having the balls to design a vessel to do just that.

Actually I was working on a Motor/Sailer design back in '89,'90 when Lock Crowther was begining work on the TaraVana design. That prompted me to consider a little more engine power and that older mainsail-less rig design of mine.

The key word was NO Mainsail. As I point out on my website, "I'm well aware that once a large gamefish is hooked, the vessel must get rid of all sail quickly, with minimum effort, and get under power."

Originally Posted by cranky

But I have to ask why the wierd rig that will undoubtedly at some point in time break. I can see at a glance at least 3 places where the loads must be incredable to keep the thing up while under sail. To sail this rig in 15 to 20 in any direction the loading on the mast base and back stays must be off the planet. I can only imagine that if the rig stayed together then the hulls and or cross beams must bend and twist like crazy. Even on a conventional rig this can be a major issue.

Can't get into defending the rig design at this time, nor on this forum. If you care to look at the aerodynamics of the situation and some of the loading discussions I can point you to numerous discussions on another forum

Originally Posted by cranky

Now If I were to be designing a vessel to carry out this task I would be looking at the "freedom 40" as my starting point, a medium displacment mono hull with a free standing ketch rig and wishbone booms fitted with lazy jacks. Or maybe take it to trimaran with a similar rig, I do not belive that you could make it structurely sound on a cat.

Interesting that you bring this 'free standing' subject up right now. Wait a few weeks and I will surprise you with a new design I'm working on right now I promise you will find it very interesting.

In the meantime did you notice this free-standing ketch referenced above in posting #32. Opps,the link was wrong, here is new one, http://www.hybridfishingboat.org

[cranky]

Look forward to seeing your new drawings

[brian eiland]

Originally Posted by cranky

Look forward to seeing your new drawings

Hello Cranky. I assume you may have seen my new DynaRig Motorsailer by now??
http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/ge...torsailer.html

[brian eiland]

Well here's a new variation

These guys in Hawaii are fishing under a new 'form of sail'....kite sails to be more specific.
http://kiteforsail.com/index.htm

(I thought I might add this posting to this subject thread as it originally proposed this fishing under sail subject, but in reality this kite sail subject probably best fits under this "New Age Kite-Assisted Power Yacht" subject.)