Click for MotorCheck Click for Cross Click for Furuno Click for Glendinning Click for YF Listing Service

Need advice buying 45 to 50 yacht

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by Silver Lining, Sep 21, 2008.

You need to be registered and signed in to view this content.
  1. Silver Lining

    Silver Lining Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    136
    Location:
    Chesapeake/Florida
    We are very interested in experience any of you might have with the following boats or advice on others we are not considering. We are looking to move up to a 45 to 50 foot flybridge. After having thought about this alot, we are trying to arrive at the best compromise. It is usually my wife, two kids, and myself. Our budget is around $300K. The requirements we have so far are that:

    1) We go across the gulf stream and throughout the Bahamas (and probably further with a bigger boat if it is feasible) and fish offshore a bit so having a seaworthy hull is perhaps the most important requirement. Boat must have a solid, non-cored hull, both for seaworthiness and longevity.

    2) We travel with the boat long distances so fuel mileage is important. (The boat will be in FL some years and on the Chesapeake others.)

    3) Since we travel long distances speed is an issue. The boat needs to be capable of between a 20 and 25 knot cruise speed. The trade off seems to be flatter deadrise for better fuel economy at the cost of seaworthiness.

    4) The boat must have a salon and flybridge with seating on the flybridge to hang out while driving or docked.

    5) We do some fishing but it tends to be offshore trolling. So a cockpit is needed but it does not have to be full size.

    My wife does not want a convertible as they typically do not have a good flybridge seating arrangement for lounging, no windows in the hull, and usually a smaller v berth for the LOA than a cruiser.

    Current boat choices:

    Sea Ray 44 Sedan Bridge: Pros: Good layout, nice flybridge, good cruise speed, several on the market, can get a 2004 or newer model near our budget (pre 04 are cored hulls). Fuel mileage good for a 30K pound boat. 18 degree deadrise but entry only moderate at best. Cons: Perhaps they are top heavy, how seaworthy are they? AC is under front v berth, fuel tank only 350 gallons. Biggest concerns are windage and if they are top heavy at sea.

    Viking Sport Cruiser 45 or 48: Pros, seems to be a nice layout, and maybe the most seaworthy of the cruisers (but no first hand knowledge, only sales talk), nice interior quality and always use solid hull construction. 19 degree deadrise with a more aggressive entry. Cons, boat will be 8 to 10 years old in our price range. Fuel economy not so good. How hard will it be to sell, there are not that many Viking Sport Cruisers in the US.

    Azimut: Nice layout and contemporary Euro styling. Good cruise speed. Nice engines. Cons, They are costly, maybe beyond our limit. I have also heard that they pound in head seas and are more of a coastal cruiser than an offshore boat. I have been told they have cored hulls.

    Carver 460 or 510 Voyager: Nice looking, large cabin space. Bigger fuel tanks. Cons, How seaworthy are they. Deadrise not as high as the VSC or SeaRay. How good is the hull construction. Is this more of a fresh water or coastal boat or can one venture down the Carribean island chain.

    Navigator: Pros, Very nice layout, lots of space. Similar to the Carver but perhaps a better made boat. Better fuel mileage. Cons, Seaworthiness unclear. Cruise speed on the low side. Some reviews say this is more of a coastal cruiser.

    Ocean Alexander may be out of the price range. Slow cruise speeds and seaworthiness unknown. Silverton does not make the right kind of layout, either convertible or aft cabin. The older Hatteras or Betrams seem to be too large, more of an aft cabin design and use a lot of fuel.

    I have done a fair bit of research on this forum and others as well as looking at many printed reviews, but the reviews rarely give critical evaluations. Test rides are hard to come by particularly in more challenging conditions. Thanks in advance!
  2. glh

    glh New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2007
    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    Burlington VT
    We bought an Azimut 46 last May had I have been very satisfied with it.

    Like you we have two kids and cruise a fair amount. This is my first flybrige and I have been very satisfied. I have owned numerous speed boats before this change in boating.

    We brought the boat up from Florida to Vermont last May and did all of it outside apart from Morehead City to Norfolk. The boat ran very well and I did not have any complaints.We did run into some 12' following sees for about an hour off from SC but we came in at Morehead City and were not worst for wear.

    I have also made a few trips from Lake Champlain in Vermont to Montreal in June for the Grand Prix and the boat performs flawless.

    I cruise the boat at around 4200rpm on Cat 3208's and cruise around 21 knots. We have done runs of up to 14 hours and used 410 gallons of fuel.

    I am getting ready to bring the boat back to Florida for the winter in order to cruise the Bahamas and the Keys this winter when the kids are out of school. It is a terrific ride and I have not had one second guess about ownign an Azimut.

    Sea Rays of the same size would of been less expensive to buy but I am very leary about owning the "Chevy" of any kind of boats. When it comes to re-sale you get creamed then. When I had speedboats I always chose to buy "Cigarette" Brand instead of Fountains (Cigs were a lot more expensive to purachse for the same size) and have been rewarded whenever I would sell them by having offers very fast and almost never loosing any money in depriciation.

    There is a couple videos on you tube from the Azimut running among my video posts over here.

    http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=glh64

    Here is a couple of pics of our ride. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

    Hope this helps.

    Attached Files:

    • 1.jpg
      1.jpg
      File size:
      58.9 KB
      Views:
      11,121
  3. KCook

    KCook Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2005
    Messages:
    1,160
    Location:
    Phoenix
    If Navigator isn't too slow, then may as well add Offshore and Symbol to the list ...

    Kelly Cook
  4. Loren Schweizer

    Loren Schweizer YF Associate Writer

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2004
    Messages:
    1,352
    Location:
    Coral Gables/Ft. Laud., FL
    Welcome to YF, Silver Lining.
    Before I'd read through your entire post, I had a boat in mind for you...and glh nailed it in the next post.
    The 46 AZ comes in 2- and 3-stateroom versions, and a 2000-ish boat should run under $300K.
    A good broker in your neighborhood should be able to find you the right boat.
  5. CaptEvan

    CaptEvan Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    172
    Location:
    Great Lakes
    4200 rpm??

    I believe glh meant 2200 rpm, a very nice all day long number for 3208's. If he ran at 4200 for 14 hours, bartender, please give me what he ordered:D .
  6. glh

    glh New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2007
    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    Burlington VT
    Indeed ... 2200 Pardon the remnants of running Cigs for so long!!! :D
  7. Silver Lining

    Silver Lining Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    136
    Location:
    Chesapeake/Florida
    Thanks for your thoughts and comments. I am in the process of getting more detailed info on the Azimut hull construction methods and hull shape. glh your Azimut is a very nice looking yacht. On our way to Annapolis this past weekend we saw a 46 Azimut anchored out and it had a nice looking vertical center of mass, not too top heavy appearing for a flybridge. In fact the profile looked very similar to a Viking Sport Cruiser we saw anchored near the same island a few weeks earlier.

    I am surprised how few comments I have received on the VSC. Why is there is no section for the Viking Sport Cruiser or the Navigator in the Motor Yachts section?

    I have not had the opportunity yet to spend time on a 46 Azimut which is important as well as getting the specific technical info.
  8. glh

    glh New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2007
    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    Burlington VT

    Attached Files:

  9. glh

    glh New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2007
    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    Burlington VT

    Attached Files:

  10. glh

    glh New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2007
    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    Burlington VT
    Couple pics of the layout.

    Attached Files:

  11. glh

    glh New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2007
    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    Burlington VT
    We have the two room upfront layout...

    This is from the information I gathered when doing my homework shopping back in the spring.

    Hope this helps whichever boat you end up purchasing.

    Attached Files:

  12. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,205
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    "I am surprised how few comments I have received on the VSC."

    You might find more info if you search under Princess Yachts as that's the manufacturer. Viking imports them and then does some very good upgrades, but most are in fact sold in Europe as Princess.
  13. T.K.

    T.K. Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2007
    Messages:
    1,013
    Location:
    Cairo - Egypt
    I used to have a Fairline Phantom 48 until a year ago and only had great experience with it. You might be interested in having a look at the model.
    Below is a picture of the P48 which I used to own........good luck.

    Attached Files:

    • P48.JPG
      P48.JPG
      File size:
      104.6 KB
      Views:
      8,261
  14. T.K.

    T.K. Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2007
    Messages:
    1,013
    Location:
    Cairo - Egypt
    I apologize Silver Lining........I did not notice your US$300k budget. Unfortunately the Phantom 48 is a very recent model, it was only launched in 2007, therefore, second hand boats will still be on the high side.

    You might be interested in looking at the Fairline Phantom 46 which is the previous model.
  15. LtherSolutions

    LtherSolutions New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2005
    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Ft. Lauderdale
    I am off and on a lot of boats of this size. I do not own one but do hear what owners and captains say.
    Azimuts are nice, but to order any parts for them is an act of congress.
    This is not to put down the boat, you just might have to wait awhile for any parts that need to come from Italy.

    Ferettis from what I have heard are great boats. I have never heard anything bad about them. I know this yacht was not one of your choices...but maybe you could take a look at them to compare.
  16. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    14,432
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    I am currently managing a 50' Azimut and have managed a 70' Seajet and 68 Plus. Azimuts can be a little tricky to get parts for, however if you know how, most parts can be bought in the US. I'm located in Fort Lauderdale and bypass the local Azimut dealer altogether because they stock nothing even though they are one of the largest Azimut dealers in the US. I call Surfside (marinemax) in New York and Rob in parts is great to deal with. He usually calls the warehouse in Fort Laud. and I just drive by and pick up the parts. 90% of what I need is found this way, the other 10% can become a little tricky.

    Of all of the boats mentioned and your budget I would choose the Searay and run with it. It is BY FAR the simplest to maintain, has the least amount of systems on it, least amount of monthly maintanence, most parts can be had at your local marine store, and searay does stand behind their warranty.
    Parts for both the VSC and Azimut by far are double and hard to find, maintanence is heavier between the extra stainless, teak, and systems. All of the vessels mentioned with diesels will have tremendous range if you run them at hull speed. I am happy with the way the 50' Azimut runs and rides, but maintanence is quite a bit heftier then the Searay's are.
  17. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,205
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Oh boy, is Rob's phone going to be ringing.
    When my boss was looking for a new boat U.S. representation was the big thing that I pushed. There are lots of good boats out there, but if it's laid up for the whole summer waiting for a part it's not so great.
  18. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    8,120
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    just out of curiosity, having never run a Mutt, :), what kind of parts woudl you be waiting for or need to get from them? engine, trannies, pumps, electrical, plumbing, electronics, all of that is off the shelf, isn't it?

    except for fiberglass parts, hatches and doors, and the like i don't see what has to be ordered from the dealer. and these are not stuff you need to replace often...

    One thing about the SRs is the cored bottom... arent' they cored under the waterline? not a big deal on a quality built but SR doens't exactly have a great record there, we've all heard or read story of water intrusion in SR cores under the WL, with near disastrous results. I know you can't base a purchase on a anecdoal evidence but still something to consider.

    With a 300k budget and the need for sea worthiness, i'd go with a slightly solder Hatt or Viking MY. early 90s in the 55' range have fallen in that budget... not sexily flashy or flashily sexy :) but built like tanks, solid bottoms, and easy to maintain.
  19. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,205
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    The list is legion. Everything from bowsprits, cleats & rails to door handles, glass and tanks. Sure, most can be fabricated or ordered after market, but that could take as long as waiting and cost more.
    Pascal's last paragraph should be considered serious food for thought. There are a lot of very good boats out there that are older, but with very few hours.
  20. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    8,120
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    i dont' know, but how often do you change a cleat or rail or bowsprit?
    Tanks? this is refit stuff. i wouldn't worry too much about parts or dealer support, it's nice to have dont' get me wrong but not critical when it comes to boats.