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Ford/Sabre 2704et's into 38' CC Offshore

Discussion in 'Chris Craft Roamer Yacht' started by Kiwipushrod, Sep 29, 2013.

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  1. Kiwipushrod, Sep 29, 2013
    #1
    Kiwipushrod

    Kiwipushrod New Member

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    I've purchased 2 Ford/Sabre 5.9l Diesel engines that I'm going to install into a 63', 38' Chris Craft Offshore, replacing the Chrysler 413 wedgies on V's.

    The turbo Sabres are rated 212hp @2500rpm, the wedges 300hp? @4500?.

    The Sabres are a few pounds lighter then the Chrysler's. These are the same 2700 series blocks that Lehman used.

    Galvanized fuel tanks already replaced with Aluminium.

    Give it to Me straight.

    Kiwi

    ps, Can someone refresh Me on pic placement around here?
  2. Kiwipushrod, Sep 29, 2013
    #2
    Kiwipushrod

    Kiwipushrod New Member

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    I'm better now.

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  3. Kiwipushrod, Sep 29, 2013
    #3
    Kiwipushrod

    Kiwipushrod New Member

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    The Offshore in question.

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  4. Capt Ralph, Sep 29, 2013
    #4
    Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Are you going to keep the same clutches and shafts? What reduction did you have and how much room do you have for wheel diameter?
  5. Kiwipushrod, Sep 29, 2013
    #5
    Kiwipushrod

    Kiwipushrod New Member

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    Soo, I now know that you're supposed to resize the pic's BEFORE uploading.

    Carl, please be gentle.

    Kiwi
  6. Kiwipushrod, Sep 29, 2013
    #6
    Kiwipushrod

    Kiwipushrod New Member

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    24"s from the factory.

    I'd like to go with Mercruiser Bravos, most likely divorced. I think I'd see a weight reduction as well as better low water navigation, I'm mostly river bound. Weight savings probably lost to transom reinforcement needed. I thought about Konrad drives but that would require a reverse gear.

    Brochure weight of 22000lbs.

    Kiwi
  7. Yachtjocky, Sep 29, 2013
    #7
    Yachtjocky

    Yachtjocky Senior Member

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    Sabers

    FYI:

    Those engines are the same blocks but Sabre machined the piston crowns out to lower the compression ratio and spares maybe hard to get. Also they could not keep them in cylinder head gaskets until they realized the heads and blocks were to finely finished using the traditional grinding so they changed to end mills.

    ....and as for heat exchangers, good luck. :cool:

    Rather ironically I worked on a lot of them on vessels built in England and they were also called "Offshore's"
  8. Capt Ralph, Sep 29, 2013
    #8
    Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    So your working up a whole drive package from gas V drive inboards to diesel stern drive.
    Can you share your thoughts on this drastic change to stern drives vs diesel inboards?
  9. Fishtigua, Sep 29, 2013
    #9
    Fishtigua

    Fishtigua Senior Member

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  10. Kiwipushrod, Sep 29, 2013
    #10
    Kiwipushrod

    Kiwipushrod New Member

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    Thank You for the Exellent information, they also recommend head bolt re-torque every 400 hrs, as well as a 2 step procedure for breakin head bolt torque and re-torque. However no torque to yield bolts or multi-layer that I know of.

    The Bowman coolers are available New on e-bay, reservoir and single pass core for $495, My luck is changing.

    I'm not sure that You know about the US Armys contract with Sabre for the motors powering MK-II jet powered bridge building boats, which is the reason these motors and coolers are available to the public since these boats have been re-fitted with Cummins 6bt in the 210hp flavor. These Ford motors have been available up to 325hp by different marinizers, I've heard that they are grenades @275hp and 15000hr motors @180hp, all reputable hearsay, I ASSure You.

    Kiwi
  11. Kiwipushrod, Sep 29, 2013
    #11
    Kiwipushrod

    Kiwipushrod New Member

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    I was hoping to get Your thoughts.

    Kiwi
  12. Kiwipushrod, Sep 29, 2013
    #12
    Kiwipushrod

    Kiwipushrod New Member

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    This is exactly the type of info that I need, Thank You Sir.

    Kiwi
  13. Capt Ralph, Sep 29, 2013
    #13
    Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    So you have really not decided to go with the bravo drives then.
    Since you had responded with the Z drive idea, I assumed you had some ideas on it.

    I would think a hassle with little return.

    I would think keeping the inboard setup would be reliable and cheap.
  14. Fishtigua, Sep 29, 2013
    #14
    Fishtigua

    Fishtigua Senior Member

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  15. Yachtjocky, Sep 29, 2013
    #15
    Yachtjocky

    Yachtjocky Senior Member

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    Sabre

    I can not remember the actual setting for the head bolts but there was a set sequence that you must stick to then when all torqued down mark the bolt head and then turn additional quarter turn.

    Lancing Marine, now there is a name from the past. Excellent company 30+ years ago and glad to hear they are still going.

    The first 212 hp motors from Sabre were put into the marine patrol boats on the river Thames in London. That is when the issues with the finish on the heads & blocks were discovered and all 12 or 14 engines were taken out.

    Those were remanufactured and put into the offshore lobster boats.

    Yes the 275 hp versions had major issues and most of the fisherman chose the 212's.

    Perkins bought the company years ago, not sure if Sabre are still going without doing a search but back then they were very helpful once they knew who you were.
  16. wrecktreker, Sep 30, 2013
    #16
    wrecktreker

    wrecktreker New Member

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    Arneson Drives

    If your going to do it, go Big!!

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  17. Capt Ralph, Sep 30, 2013
    #17
    Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    I just remembered an old event of mine;
    If you can still find any info on them, The U S Army had some river boats with the turbo Sabre with jets. I found one on the surplus sales list years ago and am still laughing at it. Out of Ft Stewart, GA. It looked like a new boat (surplus??) And they wanted to get rid of it (quickly). I was looking for a tow boat and everybody told me to steer away. Later I figured what they meant.
    Perkins, Ford and many others have found, When you have a reliable block, sooping it up does not work.
    I hope you bought all 4 on that trailer.
  18. Capt Ralph, Sep 30, 2013
    #18
    Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    I am a big fan of Arneson Drives. Those diesels will not push them for more than a few minutes.

    Hind sight sux. AND, I don't want to bust your chops;

    If your talking about easy cruising, then go for an inboard installation with what you have, (gas or diesel).
    If your thinking about Z drives (or more) and expect performance, then think big bux.
    You like gas, then large block Mopar or Chevy. If you really want performance diesel, check a few credit card ballances...

    You already have the Sabre's, Maybe the bell housing is already Borg or close compatible. Go there and enjoy some easy cruising.

    Then the big question; What you do now, may not pay off in the future re-sale.

    Keep us up on your thoughts. I've been enlightened before and enjoy (done properly) to get corrected with my ideas.

    ,rc
  19. Kiwipushrod, Sep 30, 2013
    #19
    Kiwipushrod

    Kiwipushrod New Member

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    Impressive, that pic should be in a magazine.

    Anyway, A few corrections should be posted on the original Chris Craft running gear.

    The Chrysler 413ci v8's are rated @280hp, somewhere around 4200rpm's, the stock propellers are 22x21, 3 blades. Driven thru a 2.5:1 ratio V-drive.

    I've read Lawrence (Beautiful Boat BTW) to say that His Offshore will reach 26mph @3500rpm, which I believe has stock running gear. if I had to guess, I would say that motor is putting out about 225hp at that rpm

    Soo, if I ran a 1.5:1 ratio V-drives, on the Sabres that are rated 212hp @2500rpm, what prop should I run to start with.

    Let's leave Torque out of it.

    Kiwi

    Bellhouses and couple plates are common 26 tooth and BW bolt pattern.
  20. Kiwipushrod, Sep 30, 2013
    #20
    Kiwipushrod

    Kiwipushrod New Member

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    The Army boats You mention are the MKII bridge building jet drive boats, mentioned earlier in this thread.

    "Resale", what resale? it's a 50 year old steel boat, I just want to use it. It's odd and old, that's why I like it.:cool:

    I'll have less then $3500 in this repower depending on props.

    I have 2 180hp and 4 212hp motors, the 212's have less then 1500hrs on them. If they blow up, I'll place 1-180 hp in the center of the engine compartment and make a trawler on a Bravo. For Me the working and learning the hard way are the best part, especially when someone says it wont work, but I have a feeling that it Will.

    Kiwi
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