Click for Nordlund
Click for Dockwise
Click for MCC
Click for Llebroc
Click for Oceanco
Click for Lurssen
Go Back   YachtForums.Com > YACHT & BOAT FORUMS > SportFish Yachts > Bertram Yacht > 38 Bertram Repower

Login to YachtForums
Username
Password

Reply

38 Bertram Repower

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 07-07-2010, 10:13 PM   #1 (permalink)
Red
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Lake Erie
Posts: 7
38 Bertram Repower

My friend recently purchased a 1970 38 Bertram flush deck model with diesel engines. Unfortunately after about 7 hours of engine operation one of the engines has completely failed.
My question is whether he would be better off re powering with Crusader 454's rather than trying to repair the one diesel engine or what alternatives make sense. His mechanic said a replacement was approx $60,000 and that is only one engine. The mechanic has not been able to provide an estimate to repair the engine but the damage sounds severe. Unfortunately, its a low budget boat used on the great lakes as a condo for our short 2 month boating season.
Engine hour meter is approximately 3,000 hours, the boat has probably sat for years with little use other than marina idleing which probably contributed to the engine problems.
Red is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2010, 12:52 PM   #2 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Fireman431's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: East central Florida
Posts: 197
I have never made that type of repower, but some things that come to mind:

~Flushing out the fuel system to run gas. In line filters, fuel pumps, return lines, etc

~Will the existing trans match up? Will adapters be required? Altered cooling lines?

~Will the props require replacement or reworking to assure that the engines get into the right WOT range?

~Replacement of any items to mate with the new electrical system (12 vs 24 volt)

~Replacement of batteries or are the one you have sufficient for gas as well?
Fireman431 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2010, 01:21 PM   #3 (permalink)
Red
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Lake Erie
Posts: 7
Thank you very much, it sounds like a bad situation, he may be best off repairing the old engines.
Red is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2010, 01:42 PM   #4 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
K1W1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: My Office
Posts: 6,374
Hi,

Can you please post some info as to the engine type and output (horsepower)?

If you do that there might be someone here who knows of an engine you could use or someone might be able to point you in the right direction.

It sounds like the engine clapped out pretty soon after you started using it.

Did it over heat? Run out of Oil? Throw a rod? Drop a Valve?

These are all questions that you can ask your "mechanic". I imagine that $60,000 is somewhat more than what you paid for the boat in the first place, if al the manifolds etc are ok then you can probably put them on a truck engine if you can find one the same as what the blown one was.

There are lots of running truck engines in junk yards all over the US.
K1W1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2010, 01:47 PM   #5 (permalink)
Red
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Lake Erie
Posts: 7
It is a detroit diesel, 1969, I am not sure of the model, but I can find out that information, seller advised that output was approx 280 horsepower per engine. The one engine got hot, approx. 200 and we turned it off and an engine alarm sounded as well. The other engine, that has water in the oil, seemed to be operating properly. Engine oil in both engines was at satisfactory levels.
Replacing with a truck engine sounds like a great idea if necessary.
Red is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2010, 01:53 PM   #6 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
K1W1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: My Office
Posts: 6,374
Hi,

I am guessing you have 6- 71's. Are they a V engine or straight?

The water in the oil might be from sitting a long time. When was it last changed?

If you are going to convert a truck engine get all your coolers etc pressure tested and cleaned to make sure you don't fill your new one with the old ones junk.

Here is an example of a rebuilt straight 6- 71 http://www.dieselenginemotor.com/die...nes/974,1.html
K1W1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2010, 02:11 PM   #7 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
NYCAP123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 7,911
What is the condition/value of the boat. Old Bertrams are wonderful boats, but a 1970 38 has undoubtedly been through many lives including commercial work. Anything done may be good money after bad. Just found a listing for a 1974 for $14,500 http://www.yachttraderonline.com/lis...-Fish-96891187 . Hard to picture putting 120K into that or almost any amount. I'd say rebuild if you want to nurse it for a few more years. Otherwise .......
NYCAP123 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2010, 03:31 PM   #8 (permalink)
YF Associate Writer
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Coral Gables/Ft. Laud., FL
Posts: 1,303
For your information, according to my 1969 Bertram specs & pricing for the 38 Salon Cruiser, the diesel option was the GM 8V-53 @ 283 HP. Interestingly, the 325 Mercruiser (427 c.i.) was the standard power. The gas boat, BTW, cost a tick over $50K while the oil-burner had almost a $20K premium.
You paid less than that, right?

Regarding that $60K replacement figure mentioned up-post...well, we rebuild modern 8V-92s for less than that around here.

While production boatbuilders are smart enough to simplify things when offering two engine options, i.e., I'll wager that the reverse gear was the same for both engine packages, and the stringer width was the same, etc,etc....I believe your short path, with the least pain & aggravation, is to unbutton the bad motor--and God knows there are 53-series parts aplenty (Check 'Boats and Harbors'--that yellow rag)--and have at it.
It's not Rocket Surgery, you know.

Good luck.
Loren Schweizer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2010, 06:10 PM   #9 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: lake jackson, tx
Posts: 199
I would think you can still get parts for an 8-53 if that's what they are. They tend to be hard on cam bearings and camshafts. For the money his mechanic is talking about you have several options. I'd be tempted to find some reman cummins before I would go to gasoline engines or rebuild what you have and don't run the hell out of them.
dsharp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2010, 01:14 PM   #10 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Fireman431's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: East central Florida
Posts: 197
I'm not a deisel guy by a long shot, but is $60,000 a bit much? Reman long blocks are advertised for roughly $15000 around here. If their looking at dumping that kind of cash to repower, then I would certainly consider the gas repower. $6500 per fully dress engine + all the accessories, you would probably get out for half of that!
Fireman431 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2010, 01:41 PM   #11 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: lake jackson, tx
Posts: 199
38 Bertram repower

CUMMINS QSC 8.3 540 HP. (New) not recon. 1.75-1 ZF gear, panels, harness, gauges. Electronic shift w/trolling valve. 0 hrs. Full warranty starts at time of install. $36,500. George (410) 456-44xx MD. I know this engine is too big but, I was also curious about price. This was listed at Boats and Harbors. I didn't see much in the way of rebuilts for 8V-53's. They have been obsolete for a while now. I would think a pair of these in a 46' Hatteras would make a nice package. Has anyone run a Hat with this power? As far as the 38' Bertram I think the only way you can come out is to pull the heads and see what you have left. Will the motor turn over or is it locked up?
dsharp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2010, 03:35 PM   #12 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
NYCAP123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 7,911
Given the boat and it's age and especially "its a low budget boat used on the great lakes as a condo for our short 2 month boating season." I'd say that once you start talking about replacing engines price is all that matters which probably means going to gas.
60K doesn't sound outragous for a new diesel. That 36K # sounds like it could be + deliver and installation. Rebuild may be a good way to go, but it's totally open ended until you get into it. It could be $500 or $10,000. Maybe you could try to dig in with the mechanic a little further to get a little better estimate.
NYCAP123 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2010, 03:37 AM   #13 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
K1W1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: My Office
Posts: 6,374
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsharp
CUMMINS QSC 8.3 540 HP. (New) not recon. 1.75-1 ZF gear, panels, harness, gauges. Electronic shift w/trolling valve. 0 hrs. Full warranty starts at time of install. $36,500. George (410) 456-44xx MD. I know this engine is too big but, I was also curious about price. This was listed at Boats and Harbors. I didn't see much in the way of rebuilts for 8V-53's. They have been obsolete for a while now. I would think a pair of these in a 46' Hatteras would make a nice package. Has anyone run a Hat with this power? As far as the 38' Bertram I think the only way you can come out is to pull the heads and see what you have left. Will the motor turn over or is it locked up?
Ya can get a pair of rebuilt 8v 53's here for 10K

http://au.apolloduck.com/display.pht...fx=USD#contact
K1W1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2010, 06:34 AM   #14 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
K1W1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: My Office
Posts: 6,374
Quote:
Originally Posted by K1W1
Ya can get a pair of rebuilt 8v 53's here for 10K
I forgot to add the word EACH at the end of my sentence.
K1W1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2010, 07:08 AM   #15 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
NYCAP123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 7,911
Quote:
Originally Posted by K1W1
I forgot to add the word EACH at the end of my sentence.
When you add in the cost of getting them from Australia to Lake Erie plus the cost of installation that sounds pricey for that boat with that use. He's probably still better off going with a rebuild or replacing with gas.
NYCAP123 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are EST. The time now is 11:14 PM.

Click for MotorCheck
Click for Horizon
Click for Cape Scott
Click for DeAngelo
Click for Pacific Mariner
Click for Ocean Alexander


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2