[jbk4001]

Originally Posted by Kafue

Okay Jbk4001, assuming you are telling nothing but the truth, which I am sure you are (no reason to doubt!) then it is VERY GOOD NEWS FOR US ALL!
Bertram owners can be a somewhat comforted that it was perhaps just an isolated incident.
Employees & shareholders can get some sleep.
And a Builder with a great following lives to improve and grow...

But, in all 5 press releases much of the same "guff" has been stated.
The "minor competitor" who made those posts openly admitted his occupation.
Bertram 54's, 31's etc etc have done many many thousands of hours without this issue, so while it is good to hear you have done some hard sea work in a few it does not change the fact this is a) not an isolated incident for a Ferriti Bertram and b) it should not have happened at all.
Bertram have not been open and I wonder if Mike would "As always, if you have any questions on this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me."

Give him a ring if you feel the need to! Oh yea, I ment to ask how's the Marlin fishing been down under? Thanks

[Kafue]

Originally Posted by jbk4001

Give him a ring if you feel the need to! Oh yea, I ment to ask how's the Marlin fishing been down under? Thanks

Hi Mate!
No more fishing this season! I am almost boatless, all I have is the 13' Boston Whaler that used to be my tender on the Offshore ...sniff, LOL and unfortunately the marlin was so big it dragged me for miles....ahhh who am I kiddin its BS!
Just no fishing until I am afloat again, hopefully within the next few months!
News is that the fish are getting BIGGER every year off the Gold Coast and Jumpinpin, and the season runs longer.
Tight Lines

[jbk4001]

Originally Posted by Kafue

Hi Mate!
No more fishing this season! I am almost boatless, all I have is the 13' Boston Whaler that used to be my tender on the Offshore ...sniff, LOL and unfortunately the marlin was so big it dragged me for miles....ahhh who am I kiddin its BS!
Just no fishing until I am afloat again, hopefully within the next few months!
News is that the fish are getting BIGGER every year off the Gold Coast and Jumpinpin, and the season runs longer.
Tight Lines

Thanks for the reply! You are a lucky man to live in such rich waters!!! Remember...dead is a long time! Get that boat!!!

[Kafue]

Originally Posted by jbk4001

Thanks for the reply! You are a lucky man to live in such rich waters!!! Remember...dead is a long time! Get that boat!!!

Good Advice
Thanks.

[K1W1]

Originally Posted by jbk4001

There are a few “comical” things here….

1) The first thing that is “comical” (IMHO)is that people are expecting more! Bertram has (and will continue to) release updates on the situation. One would think that 5 press releases in this amount of time are more then acceptable.

It seems from what has been released to date that there seems to be some significant difference between the manufacturers "released updates" and what is obvious for all to see.

Originally Posted by jbk4001

) The second “comical” (IMHO)thing is I have logged over 1000 hrs on a 630 (some of them even on the one that went down) in seas that most people only read or dream about. That being said, we have had no issues at all.

How many miles would your documented histiry show was covered in this time?

Originally Posted by jbk4001

) The third “comical” thing (IMHO) that was said was about hull # 1 for the 570. You remember a few pages back, the one that came back (to Bertram) with the big holes in it where the exhaust was “originally” as posted by our friend…… Funny thing is, that was my owner’s boat, I was on all sea trials with that boat, and that never happen! Now that’s funny!!!!

No further pictures have been posted by this poster so the true extent of this failure remains purely unsubstantiated.,

It might be comical for those with inside knowledge but I am sure it is far from this for the Owner right now.

[jbk4001]

"How many miles would your documented histiry show was covered in this time?"

over 22k closer to 25.....

[K1W1]

So you travelled 22 to 25 kts dock to dock, I sure pity your deckhands

[ArcanisX]

Lord I had a good laugh over this, it's not just comical.
I recall someone here was willing to provide PR assistance to Bertram/Feretti - cm'on man, a job opportunity!

Well, first off.

a) This is quite what to be expected for reasons we discussed a few pages back. IMHO quite poorly executed, but expected nontheless.

b) When you talk about *providing facts and not speculation* and immidately follow it up with BS, that looks bad.

The FACT is the sunken boat was not even located until two weeks later on November 24 by a crew contracted by the owners. It was found 1.5 miles from the point of its sinking.

Why not 1.432? So we are saying the boat has hit the buoy, and henceforth it is a FACT that it is found 1.5 miles from the point of sinking. And that supports the rest of the damage being done afterwards, because well, that's 1.5 miles! Cockooo!
That is not saying that this is not fact, that's just saying that it doesnt look like one from this speech. If they got nav readings from the resq boat at the moment of sinking, why not say that straight?

c) Typical doublespeak BS "he's a communist so he's wrong on everything". First, it's obviously not just SHAZAM! who smells foul here. Second, if you get to the point where you oppose someone personally, you explain where and how exactly he is wrong, you do not say "he's a competitor so he's inherently wrong". The fact that he may have an interest in being wrong unfortunatelly does not prove the fact that he is wrong, factual counterarguments do that.
Again, it would worth nothing to specify what coring do they use, and so on.
Plus, the "did not disclose" part is pure laugh. Somebody tell them the surprise that they are plain wrong with their FACTS here.

d) Clinging to the *buoys sink our ships with one minor scratch to show for it* rope does not exactly help their credibility as solid hull builders that I suppose is their intent. The whole storm story looks fishy at a glance aswell, if for the simple fact that there are many fiberglass artifical reefs that spend years on the bottom in better structural condition.

e) Basically mr. Myers asks us to believe his assurance of openness and not messages from people who claimed to inquire F/B about the story and got no response. Well, your mileage may vary, but given the circumstances, I am not on mr. Myers side on this.

f) Just a typical comical bit that tends to crawl into these speeches all the time. Short lesson in hypocrisy hunt, lulz be your reward:

I will not offer idle speculation or unsupported opinions.
At the same time, I believe it is my responsibility to correct misinformation that is presented as fact. Some of the statements below bring into question the motivation of the parties making the statements.

...
..
Well if these lines are intended to misrepresent author as an objective neutral party free of *motivations* for making *statements below*, that's C-

Specifically, the way "1,5 miles", "overwhelming evidence based on the unique paint we did just for this hull", "certain poster is WROOONG" and other bits are presented here is exactly the definition of "presenting unbased speculation as a fact". We are not given reasons for it save for "I say that" from an interested party.
In other words..

Originally Posted by K1W1

It seems from what has been released to date that there seems to be some significant difference between the manufacturers "released updates" and what is obvious for all to see.

g) jbk4001, can you please disclose your occupation and level of affiliation with parties involved in this?

For the record, I am not in a maritime business (and quite far from US, to boot), and have absolute zero level thereof. Oh well, I was involved in purchase of a few midsize yachts where Feretti was considered, but that's quite some time ago.
Moreso, I would qualify my prejudice about Berthram and Feretti brands as "positive" upon entering this thread. Well it isnt now, and not on the basis of "speculation", but because of evident failure on the part of manufacturer to hanfle the problem and general worries it causes with anything but BS.

Originally Posted by K1W1

Given the foregoing this must mean that there is a Farm of Sunk Bertrams out there just waiting to be videoed.

They should as previously suggested fess up and either accept responsibility or continue to bad mouth ( possibly via some supposedly non connected members of YF) everyone and everything except themselves which will no doubt do wonders for their future business.

Just like that.

Bottom line, there are still questions about their boats, but their PR suck indeed. NYCAP's stuff had a better chance of working.

P.S.

Originally Posted by K1W1

So you travelled 22 to 25 kts dock to dock, I sure pity your deckhands

Cruel.

[K1W1]

jbk4001

Wasn't your independence from the Mfr first called out earlier in this thread?

[jbk4001]

yes. and it holds true.....

[geriksen]

Originally Posted by jbk4001

yes. and it holds true.....

So what do you think happened to this boat?

Buoy?

Underwater storm?

Captain error?

[jbk4001]

Originally Posted by geriksen

That sounds very reasonable.
I heard the owner bought a replacement 63, the same year and needs a captain to run it down to FL. Would you like the delivery capt job for that trip? After all, we don't have all the facts yet. Maybe we will after it arrives.... Watch out for those yellow buoys, they are really tough.

(sarcasm intended, no offense intended)

Or, a good friend is looking at buying one, what would u say to him?

The boating industry is already shedding jobs by the thousands. I certainly don't want the folks at Bertram to lose any. I am a huge Bertram fan and even just bought one. But don't you think this incident and the preceding similar one should raise some red flags until someone does explain what happened and these boats are determined safe? At least Bertram could have some sort of campaign to check out the other boats made the same way.

I am fascinated by this discussion and am also waiting for more facts but I doubt that is what you will get once the lawyers get a hold of this. The Captains version of this event is what I wish we had right now.

Me Too!

[Kamzoori]

After reading this site for a while (I must admit I was introduced to the site through googling "catastrophic delamination"), I've finally gone through the process of registering. I must commend the site owners for having put together a very clean and professionally run site. Unfortunately I'm drawn back to this site because of another catastrophic fiberglass failure thread.

With that said, I have the following observations:

1- the site owner/moderators seem to rely on these horrific Bertram failure threads to drive traffic to their site and seem to be capitalizing on bertrams misfortune as evidenced by the shameless plug mid thread for another boat builder who happens to be a sponsor. I would have thought twice before doing that.

2- if indeed the site ownership is actively engaging in a deliberate campaign of misinformation by posting misleeding photos and attaching incorrect dates as Bertram is alleging then prepare to deal with the consequences.

3- for those posters who are posting information such as who did lamination and what types of materials were used, if you are wrong then you too must be prepared to deal with the consequences.

4- now if the photos, times and facts posted in this thread are correct and the statements made by said "minor competetor" are correct then Bertram & Mr Mike Myers are travelling on a very, very slippery slope. Make sure there isn't a bit of truth to any of those statements Mr. Myers otherwise these statements made in your emails will come back to bite you in the ass.

5- I would be especially aware of new posters that are defending the Bertram brand as I suspect that the factory will have some "professional posters" on the payroll to refute and discredit any statements made against them.

With that out of the way Mr Myers, I'll have to go fashion myself proper tin foil head gear to fully fathom the theory you are bringing fourth as an explination for this incident.

Originally Posted by Kamzoori

After reading this site for a while (I must admit I was introduced to the site through googling "catastrophic delamination"), I've finally gone through the process of registering. I must commend the site owners for having put together a very clean and professionally run site. Unfortunately I'm drawn back to this site because of another catastrophic fiberglass failure thread.

With that said, I have the following observations:

1- the site owner/moderators seem to rely on these horrific Bertram failure threads to drive traffic to their site and seem to be capitalizing on bertrams misfortune as evidenced by the shameless plug mid thread for another boat builder who happens to be a sponsor. I would have thought twice before doing that.

2- if indeed the site ownership is actively engaging in a deliberate campaign of misinformation by posting misleeding photos and attaching incorrect dates as Bertram is alleging then prepare to deal with the consequences.

3- for those posters who are posting information such as who did lamination and what types of materials were used, if you are wrong then you too must be prepared to deal with the consequences.

4- now if the photos, times and facts posted in this thread are correct and the statements made by said "minor competetor" are correct then Bertram & Mr Mike Myers are travelling on a very, very slippery slope. Make sure there isn't a bit of truth to any of those statements Mr. Myers otherwise these statements made in your emails will come back to bite you in the ass.

5- I would be especially aware of new posters that are defending the Bertram brand as I suspect that the factory will have some "professional posters" on the payroll to refute and discredit any statements made against them.

With that out of the way Mr Myers, I'll have to go fashion myself proper tin foil head gear to fully fathom the theory you are bringing fourth as an explination for this incident.

wowo sounds like the anti-shazam potion

[geriksen]

Originally Posted by Kamzoori

After reading this site for a while (I must admit I was introduced to the site through googling "catastrophic delamination"), I've finally gone through the process of registering. I must commend the site owners for having put together a very clean and professionally run site. Unfortunately I'm drawn back to this site because of another catastrophic fiberglass failure thread.

With that said, I have the following observations:

1- the site owner/moderators seem to rely on these horrific Bertram failure threads to drive traffic to their site and seem to be capitalizing on bertrams misfortune as evidenced by the shameless plug mid thread for another boat builder who happens to be a sponsor. I would have thought twice before doing that.

2- if indeed the site ownership is actively engaging in a deliberate campaign of misinformation by posting misleeding photos and attaching incorrect dates as Bertram is alleging then prepare to deal with the consequences.

3- for those posters who are posting information such as who did lamination and what types of materials were used, if you are wrong then you too must be prepared to deal with the consequences.

4- now if the photos, times and facts posted in this thread are correct and the statements made by said "minor competetor" are correct then Bertram & Mr Mike Myers are travelling on a very, very slippery slope. Make sure there isn't a bit of truth to any of those statements Mr. Myers otherwise these statements made in your emails will come back to bite you in the ass.

5- I would be especially aware of new posters that are defending the Bertram brand as I suspect that the factory will have some "professional posters" on the payroll to refute and discredit any statements made against them.

With that out of the way Mr Myers, I'll have to go fashion myself proper tin foil head gear to fully fathom the theory you are bringing fourth as an explination for this incident.

LMAO, great post!