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35 Bertram: full restoration & repower

 
 
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Old 06-27-2009, 09:37 AM   #31 (permalink)
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35 Bertram Water Tank

35Bert,

What a great job you are doing, so complete! I have a '76 35' and my water tank has given up the ghost. It's aluminum, I've been patching holes for awhile but too many now. I was think of cutting a large piece of the plywood out, on top of the tank, then cutting the top off, cutting the baffles out, and installing a bag right in the tank. It sounds like you took your whole tank out.

Can you tell me what kind of a job that was? Did you cut the plywood out so you could see the entire tank? Did you take the tank out in pieces?

Jon
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Old 06-27-2009, 10:37 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHartz
35Bert,

What a great job you are doing, so complete! I have a '76 35' and my water tank has given up the ghost. It's aluminum, I've been patching holes for awhile but too many now. I was think of cutting a large piece of the plywood out, on top of the tank, then cutting the top off, cutting the baffles out, and installing a bag right in the tank. It sounds like you took your whole tank out.

Can you tell me what kind of a job that was? Did you cut the plywood out so you could see the entire tank? Did you take the tank out in pieces?

Jon

Thanks Jon

The ez way will be to cut the ply wood in between the center two stringers.. Take a whole saw or some thing to give your self a nice size pilot hole then use a reciprocating saw to cut the two sides along the inside of the stringers. I'd use a demo blade or nail in bedded blade, Do Not Cut the Stringer!!! give your self room when you cut blind and clean up once you have a hole you can see into... And you may need a hammer or crow bar to bust out the corners, then you can pull the old tank out and drop your new bag in... If the old lumber gets trashed and it may or will, just cut a piece of 3/4 or 1/2 ply about an inch larger then the hole and screw it into the old ply wood that is still in place. When you do a project like I did a full refit you do not have to worry about scratch paint or braking stuff a crow bar a sledge hammer takes it apart fast what comes off go in to the dumpster... Only after she rolls out of the paint both do I need to worry about every thing a boat owner worries about so I think my view on any one job is a little bent, its all just a blur and as a whole its years of my life. Restoring a boat is like fixing an old 4 sided house that has to move 25mph in the water. Don't get me wrong it was fun but now I just want to go fishing.
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Old 06-27-2009, 01:41 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Water Tank

That is great advice, about the way I saw it. I don't think I will be able to get the tank through the hatch, may have to cut it up.

One more question - what material did you use for the two panels in the cockpit, just aft of the bulkhead (the bulkhead with the sliding doors). It looks like a white masonite product but I don't think it is masonite. The same material is used in the cockpit, sides and aft pieces.

Jon
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Old 06-27-2009, 02:14 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHartz
That is great advice, about the way I saw it. I don't think I will be able to get the tank through the hatch, may have to cut it up.

One more question - what material did you use for the two panels in the cockpit, just aft of the bulkhead (the bulkhead with the sliding doors). It looks like a white masonite product but I don't think it is masonite. The same material is used in the cockpit, sides and aft pieces.

Jon


Any thing that was wood was replaced with Nita core. It's a plastic core that has a scrim the you can layer with cloth till it as strong or stronger then ply wood with out ever rotting. Unlike starboard it can be painted with awlgrip. It's also up to 50% lighter than plywood. I used 20 some odd sheats in this project.
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Old 06-28-2009, 04:22 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Hi,

Bladder Tanks are very susceptible to chafe.

Make sure when you are putting in your bladder that there is nothing sharp or an edge it will rub on. You might find yourself replacing your Bladder more often that you thought if you do not.

JHartz- If you can open the floor up enough to get your tank out in one piece why not get a new Alu or SS one made and stick it back in as a metal tank?
Make the access hatch removable without a chop saw and you will have a long lasting maintainable replacement.
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Old 06-28-2009, 01:29 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Water Tank

35bert - Thanks, I will try to locate that material in Detroit, may have to order it but I will, looks like good stuff.

K1W1 - thanks for the info. I'll never get the tank out my engine room hatch, so the bladder make sense. I think I'll build an enclosure for it, making sure there are no chafe points.
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Old 06-28-2009, 06:48 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K1W1
Hi,

Bladder Tanks are very susceptible to chafe.

Make sure when you are putting in your bladder that there is nothing sharp or an edge it will rub on. You might find yourself replacing your Bladder more often that you thought if you do not.

JHartz- If you can open the floor up enough to get your tank out in one piece why not get a new Alu or SS one made and stick it back in as a metal tank?
Make the access hatch removable without a chop saw and you will have a long lasting maintainable replacement.


If you open the floor from center stringer to stringer u can pull the tank. There plywood under the tank so nothing sharp down there. Stainless is heavy and alu rots Both are $$$$ and a blater needs no vent and when that go bad there an ez swap.
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Old 06-29-2009, 08:45 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by JHartz
35bert - Thanks, I will try to locate that material in Detroit, may have to order it but I will, looks like good stuff.

K1W1 - thanks for the info. I'll never get the tank out my engine room hatch, so the bladder make sense. I think I'll build an enclosure for it, making sure there are no chafe points.



I wish I lived in Detroit cuz the guys at Michigan composites are nice and will custom make you the sheets as large as you like " can you say one piece deck" the guys at Nita in fla are butt licks in a big time way,,,, I drove 4 hours to have them tell me that sold my order out from under me & then have them mark up the price on me like 50% and waste two weeks to refund me my deposit... as to where the guy at Michigan composites is well are mid western and well that is refreshing in the boating world. I just use the word nita cuz its a smaller word and I am layz .. they also have some nice foam core stuff and it all has its place but it mostly boils down to opinion. after all you have honeycomb hull boats and foam out there.... now why I like the plastic cores over foam,,,,, now nothing bonds to plastic but what they do with the cores it smart. they take the plastic honey comb sheet and attach a plastic skin using heat bonding, the skin is like a light spun cotton only plastic, the resin will not stick to plastic but the skin soaks it like a synthetic sponge and the resin locks into the fibers then you can start laying down your glass and wetting out your fiberglass and just repeat till its as strong as you need.. now the prob with cores is bonding and most modern cores meat there doom on this point the honeycomb boats of the have bad storm fead back for this reason, most were nomex honey comb see when a cored lay up bends you can delaminate flex it back and forth and pop you can lose a hole side. that is cuz you are only bonding to the edge of the comb or surface of the foam but the plastic cores are bonded at a molecular level using heat so the are one unit and the way the scrim soaks resin it gives you killer bond to lay a fiberglass substrate.

now there are a lot of nomex bertrams from the 80's with a bad rep and a lot of plains flying around with out falling apart! how dose that work well I'll I'll tell you... air plains are built using an epoxy pre preg triaxil carbon or in other words 3 layers of uniaxil cloth stiched and pre soaked in heat activated resin. now they use nomex as a core as did bertram and nomex is a kevlar reinforce fiber dipped in photonic resin.... but what air bus and bowing do that bertram did not other then using carbon and epoxy that will bond better is the air plain guys use a big autoclave a real big heated mold that bonds the crap out of it all.. then they get nutty with an exray to check there work. the faa is strict so they keep the preprg carbon in a freezer and toss after only a month or two in fact all the stuff they use is dated with a short shelf life.... boats are unregulated you can scoop a truck load of dog crap and use it for a core and glass it up and market the boat as THE SH!T no one will stop you. kinda stinks
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Old 07-15-2009, 08:42 PM   #39 (permalink)
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more holes in my boat

well I put on some tabs and stuff like the ocean led lights, and the platform test fit.
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Old 07-15-2009, 08:58 PM   #40 (permalink)
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ocean led

all the lights are ocean led, there are two 1520 blue on each end of the transom and one 3010 white in the center there are also two x520 blue on the sides, I have one more 1520 & x520, I am ether going to put the extra 1520 on the bottom in the engine room & the x520 in the transom fish tank seeing as it has a large viewing window in it. or buy one more of each & put two x520 on the sides and the two 1520 between the 1520's and the 3010 two fill the transom more.... still thinking
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Old 07-21-2009, 07:31 PM   #41 (permalink)
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more stuff going on

some of the composit paneling has been installrd in the cock pit, the swim platform has been installed, and the clam shell vents and 50amp cable master....
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Old 07-26-2009, 10:12 PM   #42 (permalink)
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bilge rat's

So I pulled the diesel's out for a painting and to swap some stainless bolts on the flex plate to hardend steel. Then I also covered the whole bilge with awlgrip cloud wight same color as the top side and it stuck to every thing even the kevlar engine bunks awlgrip is good stuff brushed it out unreduced and gave me killer coverage.. I am close too splash down now... just have to have the shafts polished and put in the salon doors, interior, the ac/dc system and do a final fitment of the tower....
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Old 07-26-2009, 10:30 PM   #43 (permalink)
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bilge rat's

So I pulled the diesel's out for a painting and to swap some stainless bolts on the flex plate to hardend steel. Then I also covered the whole bilge with awlgrip cloud wight same color as the top side and it stuck to every thing even the kevlar engine bunks awlgrip is good stuff brushed it out unreduced and gave me killer coverage.. I am close too splash down now... just have to have the shafts polished and put in the salon doors, interior, the ac/dc system and do a final fitment of the tower....


if you look close at the edge of the salon floor you can still see the nomex honeycomb,,, it the only place I used it, light and strong but I can sell it for much more then I can buy nomex and like the plastic core systems just a much better for marine use. I set it up so the engine room hatches have there under pining built in this leaves the floor 100% composit and saves me 1000lbs or so also it is much stronger then the patch work of plywood and hardwood under pining. there are no screws to rot away, but the best part is that when all 3 hatches are opened there is no need to crawl or duck you'll be able to walk around the engines
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Old 07-31-2009, 10:34 PM   #44 (permalink)
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one more hole in my boat

Well two if you consider there are holes on both sides... As of now I am running fore x520's on the sides, two 1520's on the transom all super blue and one 3010 wight in the middle of the transom. I still have one more ocean led x520 flush mount super blue but do not think I will go to 3 per side, but who knows? I also have an extra 1520 blue, that will ether end up on the bottom in place of the use less drain plug or on the transom. Most likely I will end up buying one more of each and run two 1520's on the bottom and the two x520's on each side of the big wight 3010 on the transom, This will fill out all the water blue around and in back of the boats cockpit and and cause the much power full wight led to peak out past the blue in the back giving a neat effect... If you look in the reflection of the paint you can see I also pulled one engine hatch down and reinforced it with a layer of glass it was flexing a little and the final wood flooring may have fixed it but at $50 a foot for solid mahogany marine flooring I am not risking it...
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Old 08-05-2009, 10:50 PM   #45 (permalink)
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stainless housings, speed & dripples seals

so the stainless steel rudder housings got finished to day an were test fitted punching the whole ate 3 saw blades in each housing but its nice to have a set of solid rudder housings that will not flex or rot with time.. I also get my shafts back tomarrow, and I will give them all my info and have them give me a idea of my top speed with the new diesels. Even with all the extra outfitting on the boat I think the composits will still reduce my weight below the factory weight but will still use the factory weight for my base.
also got the dripples shaft and rudder seals. any one have a big prob with a dripples system?

Last edited by 35bert; 08-05-2009 at 11:31 PM..
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