Aluminum Hull Issues

jbreske · 10-05-2006, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timbo

Hi,

I found an alluminium racing Frers 45 but it is quite old and by the looks of it it has not been maintained very well over the years. can you advise me a way or a specialist company that would be able to conduct a survey into what is the state of the hull?

waiting for ideas,
tim

Hey Tim,
I'm not the one with that info. Sorry. I do wish you well.
I myself was making sure my boat had the proper plates,
in the proper places. As it turns out I did. It's a very important
subject for our metal boats. Good luck
JB

timbo · 10-06-2006, 05:57 AM

I'm fully aware of the importance of the plates but I'm not sure wheather the current owner was. I want to buy and refurnish the boat because the hull cut shows that this boat can still race. I just wouldnt like it to brake in two after I hoist the kite in 15kt of wind

all the best and thanks for support
timbo

alloyed2sea · 09-29-2007, 11:46 AM

Was researching CAPAC units - and found this supplier:
http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/indexc8667.html
Also found an interesting (if you are a true Roamer)couple of blurbs about the history of the firms behind the product:
http://www.water.siemens.com/en/prod...s/default.aspx
http://news.thomasnet.com/companystory/502993/tnw
Has anyone tried rebuilding their units?
Think I want to compile a short piece on doing that - hep!
Cheers,
Eric
PS - Paul Fleury's (aka Professor Marvel) website still works - he knows all (despite having sold "Never Enough"):
http://www.geocities.com/Marine_Services_USA/

9lives · 10-01-2007, 09:53 AM

I think that Jim Bauer had rebuilt his a couple of years ago and provided advice at that time. He was my source for finding new anodes etc.
Mark

chriswufgator · 10-01-2007, 04:29 PM

This is probably a dumb question, but did the CAPAC units come on steel boats, or just aluminum?

Is it something that I would be well-advised to install, as a steel roamer in saltwater, or not?

Thanks!

Mov-it! · 10-02-2007, 02:04 PM

Aluminium remains a preferred shipbuilding material. Unfortunately it also has some minor downsides like the material's softness.

At this moment I'm studying on the development of Fiber Metal Laminates (FML's) developed by Stork. For those not familiar with FML's, they are a composites made of thin metal layers (Alu or stainless steel foil) and a fiber reinforced matrix. The test are very impressive. Both the lightness of the materials and the enormous strengths are remarkable. FML's are widely used in the aviation industry. The Airbus A380 is built with an FML called glare.

FML's are likely to be introduced in yachting in applications like floors, doors, hatches and inner walls. At this point it will probably take at least 3 years to make a yacht hull in FML. The formability is limited and complex, but the engineers will find a solution for that.

Charlie D · 10-17-2007, 06:12 PM

I am more familiar with steels than aluminums. The steels came with CAPAC. I am surprised at how many Roamers are in salt water. I thought they would disolve instantly, like dropping an alka seltzer into water. Without scientific backing, I'm sure the CAPAC would be beneficial in salt water. CAPACS seem to have been standard equipment on Roamers, so it ought to be on there, unless someone removed it for some unknown reason. I consists of a couple of discs on the exterior of the boat bottom, about 8 - 10" diameter, (do not paint) a box of "electronic gizmos" hidden somewhere (probably by the fuse box) and a "control panel" near the helm. It is mostly a "leave it alone" piece of equipment. Also, sometime in the '70's or so Mercruiser was making a similar unit. If someone needs a complete set up, this is one route to check.

alloyed2sea · 10-17-2007, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mov-it!

Aluminium remains a preferred shipbuilding material. Unfortunately it also has some minor downsides like the material's softness.

Soft?
Ceauft??
Well, color me HARDHEADED:
http://www.geocities.com/alloyed2sea...neAluminum.htm

Mov-it! · 10-18-2007, 10:15 AM

Eric,

Ofcourse Aluminium isn't "soft". I meant it relatively compared to fml's.
I prefer an aluminium boat over any piece of plastic.

It only looks soft if you compare it to this.

alloyed2sea · 10-19-2007, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mov-it!

Eric,

Ofcourse Aluminium isn't "soft". I meant it relatively compared to fml's.
I prefer an aluminium boat over any piece of plastic.

It only looks soft if you compare it to this.

Hmmm,..., I can read; BUT, (like our president) CANNOT understand (that fine chart):
"Skin"?
"Core"??
"Q layers"???
Sheesh - sounds like everybody already uses diagonally layered, composite aluminum strips (FML?) to build ship hulls -- COOL!
Point is: Aluminum > GRP, eh?
PS - Check out the extruded aluminum "speedboat":
http://www.speedspecboats.com/

Northern Lights · 10-19-2007, 10:15 AM

The Capac systems are great. Like anything they need service. I have seen the anodes last 30 years. I have seen the reference electrode fail due to dive services using abrasive pads to clean the reference electrode. It has to be cleaned and over a period of years and the plated reference electrode is damaged. The damage is the base metal of the electrode is exposed. The system no longer has a proper reference and usually causes the system to over protect. The symptom is burned paint in a halo shape aroung the anodes. The manufacturer still exists and parts are still available. The system has a good history and has protected the boat for years. Wards marine electric is the official source of Engelhard Capac systems. Technically the boat is no better off than if you protect it with zinc. If this is the choice than it is smart to use a monitor only sytem. Electroguard makes a monitor only for aluminum. The nice thing electroguard monitor is that it is constant reading - no buttons to push. The reference is a small piece of mil-spec zinc. The thru-hull penetration is a 1/2" hole. The job can be done with a dive assist.
The larger Roamers had isolation transformers. They need to periodically be tested to insure isolation. The transformers that were used did not have encapsulated cores. The windings are exposed to sea air, dust, and debris. The in service and harsh conditions can lead to transformer fires. Not much to burn except the dust and debris. For those who have the transformers take a flashlight and look through the cooling holes. You will be surprised how much debris is in there especially if the boat was painted and or had major carpentry done. I have replaced a few transformers and always replace them with an Acme transformer as the winding are encapsulated.
The amazing thing about this subject is all the dock wisdom and self proclaimed experts.

Mov-it! · 10-19-2007, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alloyed2sea

Hmmm,..., I can read; BUT, (like our president) CANNOT understand (that fine chart):
"Skin"?
"Core"??
"Q layers"???
Sheesh - sounds like everybody already uses diagonally layered, composite aluminum strips (FML?) to build ship hulls -- COOL!
Point is: Aluminum > GRP, eh?
PS - Check out the extruded aluminum "speedboat":
http://www.speedspecboats.com/

Eric,
The projectmanager needed about two hours to get those figures cleared up for me.

. It all looks like a bunch of hocus pocus but FML's are widely spread in the aviation industry and will soon be available for the construction of LNG tankers. Bottom line of the chart is that those numbers implicate the strength of the "sheets". Those numbers are an equivalent to 6mm thick Alustar (AA 5059 if i'm correct). You can imagine how much extra strength it has and how much weight can be saved. Effectively the target weight savings are 70% of a comparable aluminium hull. It's so stiff that buckling is virtually impossible.

eloyex · 03-01-2008, 07:33 AM

hello to all ...

new to the forum .
i have a striker 44 aluminum boat.
Its name is Aluminum by the way !!!!!!
4 years restoring the boat. Too much job. But is getting great.

As electrical engineer, i can tell you for sure the right and probably only failproof way to go, is to protect an aluminum boat (or any metalic boat) with isolation transformers installed in the boat. Isolation transformers allow to tranmsfer the elctrical power from dock to boat without ANY interaction or mess. Also , electrical problems at dock side remain at dock side, as well as interaction with other boats around you. Downside ?? heavy, expensive, some quality cabling work needed. Basically that. An isolation transformer gives you years of troublefree service. Also, a corrosion meter is a MUST in an aluminum boat. BAsically a simple meter with a reference point inside the water thru an appropiate thruhull plastic device. Last word: mixing metals others than aluminum with an aluminum boat is a source of problems. Try to avoid that mix of metals. An aluminum boat is great, but requiers more attention and expertise than a FG boat. i will post some pictures later or my rebuild process.

eloy

waterlover · 08-21-2008, 10:40 PM

Thanks for the info on isolation transformers. I have made a decision to put one in, the one I am looking at has a security response in case of need for repairs, etc. Charles industries seems to be the best, I think. If there are any better units someone please tell me. I'm like the other super boater, I,m into my 4th year of rebuilding my weird looking roamer. I want to protect her as much as possible. I am putting alot into extensive welding, and hull reworking, as well as up grading and refitting the cabin. I decided early in this project that if I was going to do this I would do it right. Its good to know that my decisions are good ones. It took me just about a year to find a good welder that knows boats, Ks doesn't rebuild anything they just throw things away. UGG!!